ST runs better than MT

[Dave317]

I've just got a quest 3 and am trying to dial in the best settings for it.

I've used the MT branch for ages however I tried the ST version and I've found is it runs way better and is far clearer than MT.  The FPS are about the same on both versions but MT has a stutter that feels like the whole screen is being vibrated and is very unpleasant.  ST is pretty smooth and the only think I seem to be missing is the grass doesn't move from any rotor wash.

Is there something I'm doing wrong or is it the same for everyone?

I'm a bit concerned now that the ST version won't be supported for much longer.

 

My specs are:

AMD 6800 XT

11700K

64 GB ram

[BIGNEWY]

Hi, 

please attach your dcs log and dxdiag 

also let us know if you are using hyperthreading in your bios.

thank you 

[Lee Dove]

On 1/18/2024 at 12:28 AM, Dave317 said:

I've just got a quest 3 and am trying to dial in the best settings for it.

I've used the MT branch for ages however I tried the ST version and I've found is it runs way better and is far clearer than MT.  The FPS are about the same on both versions but MT has a stutter that feels like the whole screen is being vibrated and is very unpleasant.  ST is pretty smooth and the only think I seem to be missing is the grass doesn't move from any rotor wash.

Is there something I'm doing wrong or is it the same for everyone?

I'm a bit concerned now that the ST version won't be supported for much longer.

 

My specs are:

AMD 6800 XT

11700K

64 GB ram

Hi,

Are you using the Occulus app? I could not get it to work most of the time on MT. I switched to Virtual Desktop and everything now works great on Quest 3. I think the Occulus app. fights with DCS for one of teh threads and ends up blocking it as I was getting 1 thread maxed out in MT .

[Dave317]

Yes I'm using the oculus app.  I believe virtual desktop can only be used via WiFi and unfortunately my router is on another floor so doesn't get great signal.  I'm using a cable at the minute which seems to work OK.

[LOW_Hitman]

Am 18.1.2024 um 09:08 schrieb BIGNEWY:

Hi, 

please attach your dcs log and dxdiag 

also let us know if you are using hyperthreading in your bios.

thank you 

should hypertreading be activated?

[BIGNEWY]

29 minutes ago, LOW_Hitman said:

should hypertreading be activated?

On most systems I would say yes, however others seem to perform better with it off. It can be system specific I have found while trying to help people. 

 

[LOW_Hitman]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb BIGNEWY:

On most systems I would say yes, however others seem to perform better with it off. It can be system specific I have found while trying to help people. 

 

i tried on and off - no performance impact (MT Stable Version)

Edited January 24, 2024 by LOW_Hitman

[BIGNEWY]

38 minutes ago, LOW_Hitman said:

i tried on and off - no performance impact (MT Stable Version)

 

thanks, yes it varies between systems. 

 

[Byzantine_SK]

I’ve found ST works better in VR than MT. Same findings as OP. 

[LOW_Hitman]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Byzantine_SK:

I’ve found ST works better in VR than MT. Same findings as OP. 

Tested it, ST average fps 45 - MT average fps and a way more smoother 80-90 fps - so there must be a problem with your system or something. MT was always better in VR

Edited July 27, 2024 by LOW_Hitman

[Byzantine_SK]

On 7/27/2024 at 12:22 PM, LOW_Hitman said:

Tested it, ST average fps 45 - MT average fps and a way more smoother 80-90 fps - so there must be a problem with your system or something. MT was always better in VR

 

No, my system is fine. I’m running a Ryzen 5950x - no CPU cores are parked, 128 gb ram and a 4090 for the GPU with the VR set to 90hz.

Nearly all settings are on high and I can hold 30-45 fps with MR on or 60-90 fps with MR off. The difference being, in Steam VR ST - that 45fps is smooth. In Steam VR MT or OpenXR stand-alone MT outside of Steam, that 45 fps comes with jitters and frame jumps - same settings. It has nothing to do with my system or in game or out of game settings. It’s the difference of ST being stable and smooth and MT not being smooth. It could be that my 16 Core CPU doesn’t like MT - I’m not sure of the reason. 

[TFS]

27 minutes ago, Byzantine_SK said:

No, my system is fine. I’m running a Ryzen 5950x - no CPU cores are parked, 128 gb ram and a 4090 for the GPU with the VR set to 90hz.

Nearly all settings are on high and I can hold 30-45 fps with MR on or 60-90 fps with MR off. The difference being, in Steam VR ST - that 45fps is smooth. In Steam VR MT or OpenXR stand-alone MT outside of Steam, that 45 fps comes with jitters and frame jumps - same settings. It has nothing to do with my system or in game or out of game settings. It’s the difference of ST being stable and smooth and MT not being smooth. It could be that my 16 Core CPU doesn’t like MT - I’m not sure of the reason. 

I tried this back and forth with ST and MT in VR, quest 3, non steam vr. I have a 14900k, 4090, 64gb ddr5 and running on a ssd m.2. I have DCS set to affinity p cores 1-7 currently using process lasso unparked. (still toying with 7 p cores vs 16p cores vs 32 cores, everyone says use p cores 1-4 or 1-7) 

I have my hmd at 72mhz, and I'm not a fan of ST, even bigger issue is the cursor in ST is black and extremely difficult to see, visuals are missing with proper rotor wash. I sustain steady performance in MT now without issue and ST seems as if it hasn't been updated or optimized in a while. Forgotten about and abandoned, while MT keeps getting smoother. 

 

You have plenty of ram, if it's ddr4, then maybe, if it's ddr5 then your cpu is probably your issue. What headset are you using, also if you get a hmd that can utilize foveated rendering that will help wonders too. That's my next step but performance currently is butter for my pc. I played with settings for countless hours though to achieve a smooth experience and I watched a disgusting amount of videos. What I learned is, what works for me will 1000% be different for you. I monitor gpu and cpu performance and I have my ram OC, my Temps never get remotely near concerning. I have the latest bios on cpu. It was not plug and play. 

 

Lastly, the biggest performance boost I ever got in vr for dcs was turning off windows gaming mode. No video I ever watched mentioned this, and it changed everything. Also not sure if it matters as I've been told it doesn't, but I have my wd screen at the lowest resolution possible. I've heard this has zero impact ok performance but I just can't imagine asking my pc to not render something in higher resolution twice. When I record through oculus mirror or stream I have 3 displays of what I see active on screen, runs fine. Probably why I think my vr videos looks lesser quality. 

If windows game mode is on, turn that off and life with be happier lol

[Byzantine_SK]

Yeah - I’ve got windows game mode off and like you I’ve watched thousands of hours of videos and tweaked and fiddled with Nvidia control panel, open xr toolkit, MR, 60 hz vs 90hz on my VR device, project lasso, affinity cores assignment / you name it. MT use to work well but went tits up after the most recent update. When I launch in ST I get no stuttering and better visuals in VR but have to deal with things like the loss of the rotor wash effect and a black cursor. There is no one fix as you say as everyone has a different system. Being a DCS player is equal parts a labour of love and being a glutton for punishment. One update it works - the next it doesn’t. There is always something. I’m hoping MT will work again down the line as ST doesn’t seem to get support anymore. 

[Flyingfish]

2 hours ago, Byzantine_SK said:

No, my system is fine. I’m running a Ryzen 5950x - no CPU cores are parked, 128 gb ram and a 4090 for the GPU with the VR set to 90hz.

Nearly all settings are on high and I can hold 30-45 fps with MR on or 60-90 fps with MR off. The difference being, in Steam VR ST - that 45fps is smooth. In Steam VR MT or OpenXR stand-alone MT outside of Steam, that 45 fps comes with jitters and frame jumps - same settings. It has nothing to do with my system or in game or out of game settings. It’s the difference of ST being stable and smooth and MT not being smooth. It could be that my 16 Core CPU doesn’t like MT - I’m not sure of the reason. 

I also have stuttering when using MT but it only happens when ASW (motion smoothing) is active. It's smooth when using ST

[Byzantine_SK]

1 hour ago, Flyingfish said:

I also have stuttering when using MT but it only happens when ASW (motion smoothing) is active. It's smooth when using ST

Hopefully it gets addressed in the next hotfix or patch. I’m going to shelve DCS until then.

[LOW_Hitman]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Byzantine_SK:

No, my system is fine. I’m running a Ryzen 5950x - no CPU cores are parked, 128 gb ram and a 4090 for the GPU with the VR set to 90hz.

Nearly all settings are on high and I can hold 30-45 fps with MR on or 60-90 fps with MR off. The difference being, in Steam VR ST - that 45fps is smooth. In Steam VR MT or OpenXR stand-alone MT outside of Steam, that 45 fps comes with jitters and frame jumps - same settings. It has nothing to do with my system or in game or out of game settings. It’s the difference of ST being stable and smooth and MT not being smooth. It could be that my 16 Core CPU doesn’t like MT - I’m not sure of the reason. 

strange, very strange...

I'm running a Intel i9 9900k, disabling hyperthreading helped a lot. Lower temps, less stutters. It seems that DCS having issues using non-physical cores.

[TFS]

4 hours ago, Byzantine_SK said:

Yeah - I’ve got windows game mode off and like you I’ve watched thousands of hours of videos and tweaked and fiddled with Nvidia control panel, open xr toolkit, MR, 60 hz vs 90hz on my VR device, project lasso, affinity cores assignment / you name it. MT use to work well but went tits up after the most recent update. When I launch in ST I get no stuttering and better visuals in VR but have to deal with things like the loss of the rotor wash effect and a black cursor. There is no one fix as you say as everyone has a different system. Being a DCS player is equal parts a labour of love and being a glutton for punishment. One update it works - the next it doesn’t. There is always something. I’m hoping MT will work again down the line as ST doesn’t seem to get support anymore. 

That's the most frustrating part, what works for this guy vs what works for me is different for you. I stopped using asw, and ovr toolkit as it hurt performance. Performance on my index also isn't the same as my quest 3.

It's a puzzle and all our peices are sooo similar so it's hard to find the culprit. I wish I could fix it for you. 

[TFS]

Lastly I just thought of it, since the last patch, did you delete metashader files and fxo files. Bunch of people in a bunch of groups had issues and when did that the game worked as usual again. Just another thought. 

[Phantom711]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb TFS:

I've heard this has zero impact ok performance but I just can't imagine asking my pc to not render something in higher resolution twice.

If you paint a picture, it doesn‘t matter if you show it to one or two or ten persons, it is the same amount of work that went into that picture.

As for our use case, the only exception I could imagine would theoretically apply is, if you set the DCS 2D resolution to something higher than your supersampled VR resolution and make the checkmark for „Use DCS resolution“ under the VR mirror options. But this would be really silly.

Edited July 30, 2024 by Phantom711

[Glowingheat]

I tried ST and it's much more fluid on my system too - this never used to be the case, MT was much better when it was launched - but at some point since then, got worse.

My system is an i9 10900k RTX 3080 and Meta Quest 2

 

[RogueRunner]

Very frustrating. Also using AMD 5700X3D and have that exact problem. Will go look at ST tonight

[BIGNEWY]

If you are having issues with MT its best to post your dcs log from a session and your dxdiag so the team can take a look. 

Bear in mine ST will be removed from DCS eventually so its important to report the issues you are seeing. 

Not all processors and setups will work well with MT but we are still tweaking so any information about issues is important. 

thank you 

 

 

[Hartsblade]

2 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

If you are having issues with MT its best to post your dcs log from a session and your dxdiag so the team can take a look. 

Bear in mine ST will be removed from DCS eventually so its important to report the issues you are seeing. 

Not all processors and setups will work well with MT but we are still tweaking so any information about issues is important. 

thank you 

 

 

I too have seen a general performance drop in VR since the last patch.  I ended up locking my HMD's refresh rate at 45Hz just to make it playable, when previously I could run at unlocked at 72Hz.

I will try to get a log and dxdiag for you tonight.

 

[Hartsblade]

14 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

If you are having issues with MT its best to post your dcs log from a session and your dxdiag so the team can take a look. 

Bear in mine ST will be removed from DCS eventually so its important to report the issues you are seeing. 

Not all processors and setups will work well with MT but we are still tweaking so any information about issues is important. 

thank you 

 

 

So I ran a few tests of DCS both Multi-Thread and Single Thread at native 72Hz and 90Hz locked at 1/2 (45Hz).  I flew The Spitfire in Free Flight over the Channel because I am very familiar with it and how my PC performs in that situation.  The overall impression is that Single Thread DCS is performing on par or better then Multi Thread DCS currently, which was not and should not be the case.

Dropping down low over the Channel is guaranteed to tank my FPS.  Prior to the last patch I could expect my FPS to drop to between 45-50 fps on Multi-thread DCS, where now with the current version,  my FPS will drop down to between 30-35 fps in the same situations on Multi-Thread or 40-45 fps on the Single Thread DCS.

I'm attaching my log files for the 4 different flights and my current DXDiag file.

DxDiag.txt dcs_MT_45Hz.log dcs_MT_72hz.log dcs_ST_45Hz.log dcs_ST_72Hz.log

[LOW_Hitman]

After a few flights i can confirm this situation! ST is performing way better than MT. What a great improvement in the last game update ED... thnx...

Edited August 2, 2024 by LOW_Hitman