Startup training issue - stuck at turning on HUD

[FIVE-one]

Hi !

I wished to retrain starting up the machine and got stuck at turning up the HUD.

Switches are on and the tutorial doesn't move on.

On a lesser importance : the tutorial asks for INS alignment on 00 position, which is impossible. Had to go with 20 (as per SOP) but the tutorial doesn't mention it.

PS : I know Baltic Dragon has a lot of job to do at the moment. Just opening the topic to report the issue.

[Ricou]

the trigger "FL9 HUD and Radar altimeter ON" doesn't work.
I did the following :
I oppened the mision in the ME and found the trigger "FL9 HUD and Radar Altimeter ON"
I changed the Min value from 0,1 to 0 inside the condition "COCKPIT ARGUMENT IN RANGE (201,0.1,0.5,"")

[madyogi]

Ricou - Good answer. Just downloaded the M2k and the training mission has this issue.

COCKPIT ARGUMENT IN RANGE (201,0,0.5,"")

solves it.

[unclesneep]

The need to go into the me and do this in order to even learn to start the jet is unacceptable..  

Resolve your differences ed and razbam. 

Your paying customers are getting angry.

[Rudel_chw]

1 hour ago, unclesneep said:

The need to go into the me and do this in order to even learn to start the jet is unacceptable..  

 

what need?, couldn’t you simply read the procedure on the manual? Or watch a YT tutorial? i can suggest  this series:

 

 

 

[Jascha]

5 hours ago, Rudel_chw said:

what need?, couldn’t you simply read the procedure on the manual? Or watch a YT tutorial? i can suggest  this series:

I'm sorry, but this is not the solution. With your logic all in-game training missions are obsolete since there are tons of very good materials on YT and elsewhere.

There is a bug in this training mission making it impossible to accomplish (as described above). A self-edit workaround tip posted above is nice but still - it should be fixed at some point. It's very simple, really.

Edited October 16, 2024 by Jascha

[Rudel_chw]

42 minutes ago, Jascha said:

I'm sorry, but this is not the solution.

never claimed it was a solution, I just found the expression "do this in order to even learn to start the jet is unacceptable..  " a bit dramatic and even entitled. A software as complex as dcs has bugs and I have no doubt that there are priorities to fix such bugs eventually, but a mission trigger bug is not so critical (in my view) as to declare this situation as "unacceptable".

[Jascha]

16 minutes ago, Rudel_chw said:

never claimed it was a solution, I just found the expression "do this in order to even learn to start the jet is unacceptable..  " a bit dramatic and even entitled.

Maybe it's a bit overdramatic, but a paying customer is "entitled" to have a working product (in this case - free of critical bugs). This bug, albeit small, is critical in my view, as it makes impossible to progress and finish the first training mission. These missions for me are always very important. They are the first thing that I do after I buy a new module (despite relying mostly on manuals and YT guides in my training). I consider them a presentation / a showcase for the aircraft. To have such situation reflects poorly on the product. I understand that currently situation with RAZBAM modules is... complicated, but I hope it can be fixed soon.

[unclesneep]

2 hours ago, Jascha said:

Maybe it's a bit overdramatic, but a paying customer is "entitled" to have a working product (in this case - free of critical bugs). This bug, albeit small, is critical in my view, as it makes impossible to progress and finish the first training mission. These missions for me are always very important. They are the first thing that I do after I buy a new module (despite relying mostly on manuals and YT guides in my training). I consider them a presentation / a showcase for the aircraft. To have such situation reflects poorly on the product. I understand that currently situation with RAZBAM modules is... complicated, but I hope it can be fixed soon.

Amen brother..

I can understand not supporting new content.  But If you sell something, you should at least support what you're selling.  The module comes with tutorial missions and 2 campaigns.  It's not alot to ask that those actually work properly.   

With respect, I don't think its "entitled" to think that.

 

Edited October 16, 2024 by unclesneep

[Jascha]

I just wanted to confirm that the NTTR variant of cold start training mission has the same issue. Mission does not progress after turning the HUD on.

[Jascha]

The solution how to correct this bug has been posted above, but since it may be too complicated for new players, here are the working startup training missions:

Caucasus:

M2K Training 01 FINAL.miz

NTTR:

M2K NTTR 01 FINAL.miz

I have tested it and it works. There were some minor issues with some highlights staying visible but they don't affect the progress.

Just place it in My Missions folder or replace original files in "\DCSWorld\Mods\aircraft\M-2000C\Missions\Training\" folder.

[Rudel_chw]

20 minutes ago, Jascha said:

here are the working startup training missions:

 

Thanks a lot, this is truly useful and should help new users. Hope fully ED can take those as examples and place them as standard content.

[pbt31]

Finally, I was able to unblock the problems of this mission:

First: there is a FBW failure after some times at the beginning : after several tests, it seems that it's the outside temperature that's causing the failure: tests carried out with a positive temperature in the mission's weather definition, and no more problems. I couldn't find anything about this in the docs or elsewhere?
Secondly, on the HUD trigger: in the final version, they added a trigger on the emergency hydraulic pump switch just before the HUD switch. I simply deactivated it to keep things simple. Now the mission is operational.

As for the temperature problem, I'm afraid you'll have to do it on every mission (if there aren't other bugs elsewhere...). To be continued...

Here the modified mission file if it can help.

Mission_01_FINAL.miz

[razo+r]

1 hour ago, pbt31 said:

Finally, I was able to unblock the problems of this mission:

First: there is a FBW failure after some times at the beginning : after several tests, it seems that it's the outside temperature that's causing the failure: tests carried out with a positive temperature in the mission's weather definition, and no more problems. I couldn't find anything about this in the docs or elsewhere?

Mission_01_FINAL.miz 11.17 MB · 0 downloads

Can you perhaps elaborate this FBW failure? Is it something special, or just the FBW test not passing? In that case, you have to wipe the controls a few times before conducting the test to warm up the hydraulics and release any air trapped in the system.

Edited June 9 by razo+r

[pbt31]

Hi, not the FBW test, it’s a failure of the FBW system happening few minutes after the beginning of a mission when the outside temperature is below 0degC. Something that happened after some upgrade ?? I have made the test to change the outside temperature with a simple mission. No problem above 0, failure below 0, and impossible to repair the plane.

2 hours ago, razo+r said:

Can you perhaps elaborate this FBW failure? Is it something special, or just the FBW test not passing? In that case, you have to wipe the controls a few times before conducting the test to warm up the hydraulics and release any air trapped in the system.

 

[razo+r]

14 hours ago, pbt31 said:

Hi, not the FBW test, it’s a failure of the FBW system happening few minutes after the beginning of a mission when the outside temperature is below 0degC. Something that happened after some upgrade ?? I have made the test to change the outside temperature with a simple mission. No problem above 0, failure below 0, and impossible to repair the plane.

 

And what kind of failure is it? Is there any warning light being lit up? How do you know it's a failure, how does the failure manifest itself?

Perhaps you could create a seperate topic about this with all the necessary infos and tracks attached.

[roscore]

Hello,

I just found this thread cause I had the same problem as the thread starter.

This "cockpit argument in range" seems to be a problem in more than this first training mission. I tried the first campaign mission, the hangar just opens and nothing happens. After reading about this cockpit argument error I changed the first 2 occurences of this argument min value to 0 and now at least the first instructions are displayed. As i am a total noob regarding the dcs mission editor my question is: 
Would it be a good idea to just change all of these min values to 0 (in all training and campaign miz files)? Maybe with some kind of script or little program. I looked in the mission file in the miz file and there a lot of these c_argument_in_range keywords. So it shouldn't be that hard. 

regards

[pbt31]

No other problem on mission one for me. The best you can do is to ask ground crew to plug the GPU, switch on the battery and then turn on both radios. It works well. The trigger need both battery and radio to activate. No need to adapt other parameters for me.

 

[roscore]

thank you for testing this. At some point later at the starting procedure it really takes quite long (20 sec or so) til the next task pops up. So I guess I was a little bit impatient  and I thought its broken.