Wear and Tear questions

[NoodI]

Will systems in the jet be the only things to wear, or will things on pylons like the pods wear too? and will the missiles be able to wear, and can things have malfunctions over time, like the pod melting if you keep the laser on for too long or missile malfunctions, or jet systems malfunctions if you pull too many Gs.

[Oesau]

No idea on the missiles but recall that the pave spike pod is as remember Nick talking about gimbal movement speeds varying

[NoodI]

5 minutes ago, Oesau said:

No idea on the missiles but recall that the pave spike pod is as remember Nick talking about gimbal movement speeds varying

i hope you can destroy it tbh, it'd be cool to test melting the pod and having the "MALF" go off

[Stackup]

For weapons to fail it would have to be while on the jet since once it leaves the jet, ED is in control.  Third parties only control how the weapon interfaces with the aircraft, not the weapon's behavior itself.

[NoodI]

1 minute ago, Stackup said:

For weapons to fail it would have to be while on the jet since once it leaves the jet, ED is in control.  Third parties only control how the weapon interfaces with the aircraft, not the weapon's behavior itself.

:c

[Stackup]

Just now, NoodI said:

:c

Tbf, if you're looking for the Vietnam missile experience, just fire outside of the missile parameters e.g. the second you get tone.  Tone is no gaurantee of a hit with the AIM-9J and the AIM-7E/E-2 will also be fun to mess around with.

[Zabuzard]

3 hours ago, NoodI said:

Will systems in the jet be the only things to wear, or will things on pylons like the pods wear too? and will the missiles be able to wear, and can things have malfunctions over time, like the pod melting if you keep the laser on for too long or missile malfunctions, or jet systems malfunctions if you pull too many Gs.

Yes, everything under our control is subject to wear/tear, generally speaking. That includes stores like the pod. Missiles also to some extend (mostly when it is about the interaction with the plane - not so much when it already left the rail).

3 hours ago, NoodI said:

i hope you can destroy it tbh, it'd be cool to test melting the pod and having the "MALF" go off

Yes, the pod has several components that are subject to the system (iirc around 30) and it can overheat and also melt. And then there is of course also combat damage.

[NoodI]

14 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

Yes, everything under our control is subject to wear/tear, generally speaking. That includes stores like the pod. Missiles also to some extend (mostly when it is about the interaction with the plane - not so much when it already left the rail).

Yes, the pod has several components that are subject to the system (iirc around 30) and it can overheat and also melt. And then there is of course also combat damage.

tysm this only fuels my excitement

[Punkmonkey22]

Just seen the Episode1 feature on Youtube. The more I see of this "individually modelled systems", the more I worry about performance. Will using the Phantom mean we can have less AI in a mission compared to other modules if we wish to maintain the same level of performance from the sim?

[NoodI]

22 minutes ago, Punkmonkey22 said:

Just seen the Episode1 feature on Youtube. The more I see of this "individually modelled systems", the more I worry about performance. Will using the Phantom mean we can have less AI in a mission compared to other modules if we wish to maintain the same level of performance from the sim?

+1 i hope its not worse than f14 cause i can barely run that on my reg graphics setting 

[Zabuzard]

Our performance benchmark is the Tomcat.

The simulation depth isnt necessarily what drives your performance up, its mostly other things like detailed models and rendering. Or simply mistakes in the code like too many radar or laser raycasts that cause issues. Even your fridge can run a billion math computations per second already.

Edited February 17 by Zabuzard

[NoodI]

11 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

Our performance benchmark is the Tomcat.

The simulation depth isnt necessarily what drives your performance up, its mostly other things like detailed models and rendering. Or simply mistakes in the code like too many radar or laser raycasts that cause issues. Even your fridge can run a billion math computations per second already.

 

very relieved 

[Cobra847]

6 hours ago, NoodI said:

very relieved 

Just to make an addendum to @Zabuzard. Not that our target is the F-14; however the F-4E is definitely far more detailed (30% more code alone!) and runs a higher fidelity and deeper simulation than we've ever done before. 

I'd also note that the models and art in general are more complex. More things shaking, moving, wobbling means a lot more vertex transformations for your CPU to do. 

We're working really hard to ensure that performance is reasonable on launch. Currently performance is under the F-14 benchmark, but we've not done final profiling and optimization just yet, so we hope to find more headroom.

[G.J.S]

12 hours ago, Cobra847 said:

 More things shaking, moving, wobbling means a lot more vertex transformations for your CPU to do. 
 

Could that be a switchable option?

If there may be performance degradation then could there be a selection that inhibits the movement, thereby not having a performance hit?

Dont know if it indeed would cause a drop in performance, but if so . . . Every little helps.

[freehand]

This is one reason ED do not go over board on there models not because they cannot but playability is far more important, on top of that add VR in to the mix and the flight model goes out the window for obvious reasons.

[Viper33]

20 hours ago, Cobra847 said:

Just to make an addendum to @Zabuzard. Not that our target is the F-14; however the F-4E is definitely far more detailed (30% more code alone!) and runs a higher fidelity and deeper simulation than we've ever done before. 

I'd also note that the models and art in general are more complex. More things shaking, moving, wobbling means a lot more vertex transformations for your CPU to do. 

We're working really hard to ensure that performance is reasonable on launch. Currently performance is under the F-14 benchmark, but we've not done final profiling and optimization just yet, so we hope to find more headroom.

Please don't make my sim freeze whenever I merge with a F-4 like is the case with the Tomcat.

[ustio]

8 hours ago, G.J.S said:

Could that be a switchable option?

If there may be performance degradation then could there be a selection that inhibits the movement, thereby not having a performance hit?

Dont know if it indeed would cause a drop in performance, but if so . . . Every little helps.

 

20 hours ago, Cobra847 said:

Just to make an addendum to @Zabuzard. Not that our target is the F-14; however the F-4E is definitely far more detailed (30% more code alone!) and runs a higher fidelity and deeper simulation than we've ever done before. 

I'd also note that the models and art in general are more complex. More things shaking, moving, wobbling means a lot more vertex transformations for your CPU to do. 

We're working really hard to ensure that performance is reasonable on launch. Currently performance is under the F-14 benchmark, but we've not done final profiling and optimization just yet, so we hope to find more headroom.

Yes please. Not being unappriciated of your work. But how currently unpotimzed DCS is. Would be great if you can have an option to turn it off. Specially in large complex mission and multiplayer

Edited February 19 by ustio

[JayTSX]

Hmm after trying the multithreaded preview I had no problems in either sp or mp (or rather none that were caused by a CPU bottleneck) I used a Ryzen 5 2600x ( which is not a bad processor but compared to even the lower end 7xxx ryzen 5 it's like racing a snail) 

I found the biggest impact on performance being Ram (Speed and Capacity) and Graphics Memory.

On my new PC I run a 7800x3d with 32 Gb of 6000mhz DDR5 paired with the 3060 12GB from my previous PC. I don't hit any bottlenecks on mostly highest settings flying the Tomcat exclusively... Only thing I noticed is a drop to 56 FPS (from 75 capped) while on ground with some weather conditions.

Flying close to ground is fine again.

I'd guess that in worst case I would lower shadow and terrain quality as I usually don't care to much about them.

[Merlin_VFA34]

Hi,

What I currently don't understand about "Wear and Tear" is where this system is applied. You can set the parameters for this in the mission editor, but can these values also be taken over from another mission? Does this only work within a campaign? I guess that the status of the aircraft isn't saved after each mission and adopted for the next mission, regardless of whether these missions are related or not?

Greetings

Merlin

[NoodI]

22 hours ago, Viper33 said:

Please don't make my sim freeze whenever I merge with a F-4 like is the case with the Tomcat.

electronic warfare

[Zabuzard]

Hi,
What I currently don't understand about "Wear and Tear" is where this system is applied. You can set the parameters for this in the mission editor, but can these values also be taken over from another mission? Does this only work within a campaign? I guess that the status of the aircraft isn't saved after each mission and adopted for the next mission, regardless of whether these missions are related or not?
Greetings
Merlin

For now the state is not persisted. But we are aiming at adding such options for dynamic campaigns and similar.

Right now, you can set the initial stats for spawn in the ME and from there on, it reacts to how you fly and other factors.

You can check our manual for some details (chapter DCS > Mission Editor).

[Tom Kazansky]

18 minutes ago, Zabuzard said:

For now the state is not persisted. But we are aiming at adding such options for dynamic campaigns and similar.

Right now, you can set the initial stats for spawn in the ME and from there on, it reacts to how you fly and other factors.

You can check our manual for some details (chapter DCS > Mission Editor).

Will there be training missions where some of the wear and tear aspects are introduced to new pilots that are not familiar with those (I.e. most of us)?

[Punkmonkey22]

2 hours ago, Zabuzard said:

For now the state is not persisted. But we are aiming at adding such options for dynamic campaigns and similar.

Right now, you can set the initial stats for spawn in the ME and from there on, it reacts to how you fly and other factors.

You can check our manual for some details (chapter DCS > Mission Editor).

Will it be possible to turn the feature off entirely, or disable it for a mission in the editor?

[Rapierarch]

On 2/18/2024 at 4:21 AM, Cobra847 said:

Currently performance is under the F-14 benchmark

Ouch  My dreams  

[Cobra847]

On 2/18/2024 at 4:11 PM, G.J.S said:

Could that be a switchable option?

If there may be performance degradation then could there be a selection that inhibits the movement, thereby not having a performance hit?

Dont know if it indeed would cause a drop in performance, but if so . . . Every little helps.

It's just an example; not something we're noting as being an actual bottleneck right now.
The entire module is a product of the whole; and if there's overall more complexity involved, even small things like a few additional vertex transformations every frame can have an impact.

Performance is important and while we want to push things onward in fun ways, we're not very enticed into creating unplayable, unfun experiences.

Edited February 20 by Cobra847