rearm & refuel choppers from trucks

[Lau]

@BIGNEWY

The main advantage of a helicopter is its ability to land almost anywhere, hence the extensive use of mobile FARPS and by mobile, I mean giving the ability to players to refuel & rearm from trucks that can be relocated at any time during the mission via the F10 map or using the combined arms module.

There is a post somewhere where this topic was discussed and BIGNEWY reply was that after checking with the Dev TM this is not possible and that the current FARPS are a way around it. 

With this type of answer,  BIGNEWY is implying that HB dev TM has better coders since they have managed to implement this with the Viggen!

Best,

Lau

 

[BIGNEWY]

I think you are confused, the use of invisible FARPS and placing trucks is already part of the mission editor and core DCS. You can place them wherever you wish to use them. 

Best, 

bignewy

 

[Dangerzone]

7 hours ago, BIGNEWY said:

I think you are confused, the use of invisible FARPS and placing trucks is already part of the mission editor and core DCS. You can place them wherever you wish to use them. 

Best, 

bignewy

 

Hi @BIGNEWY,

The problem is that these need to be placed in the mission editor before the mission is ran. I think what the OP is asking is that being able to refuel and rearm from trucks means that you could have dynamic FARPS during the actual mission, and not rely on the mission editor putting them in set places. You just drive them to where they're needed at that time.

@Lau  - FYI - using MOOSE it would be possible to spawn in new FARP locations dynamically. There would be a bit of coding involved in doing ths (and you'd need to also place in the 4 unit types required along with that FARP).  This wouldn't operate as you're wanting (ie, be able to move the FARP from one location to another), but it could be a work-around depending on what you are wanting to do.

I've seen this used before to progress the front line. It doesn't allow for dynamic spawn points - but it is possible with some work. 

 

I also don't know - but there may be a "COW" coming (mobile FARP) in the form of a Chinook when it's released. (I don't know, but I'm kinda hoping).

Edited March 12, 2024 by Dangerzone

[evanf117]

30 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

Hi @BIGNEWY,

The problem is that these need to be placed in the mission editor before the mission is ran. I think what the OP is asking is that being able to refuel and rearm from trucks means that you could have dynamic FARPS during the actual mission, and not rely on the mission editor putting them in set places. You just drive them to where they're needed at that time.

@Lau  - FYI - using MOOSE it would be possible to spawn in new FARP locations dynamically. There would be a bit of coding involved in doing ths (and you'd need to also place in the 4 unit types required along with that FARP).  This wouldn't operate as you're wanting (ie, be able to move the FARP from one location to another), but it could be a work-around depending on what you are wanting to do.

I've seen this used before to progress the front line. It doesn't allow for dynamic spawn points - but it is possible with some work. 

 

I also don't know - but there may be a "COW" coming (mobile FARP) in the form of a Chinook when it's released. (I don't know, but I'm kinda hoping).

 

4 unit types, i thought it was 3?

[draconus]

6 hours ago, evanf117 said:

4 unit types, i thought it was 3?

1. ammo

2. fuel

3. comms

4. power, ground crew, repair, nav...

 

Edited March 12, 2024 by draconus

[Lau]

Hi everyone,

@BIGNEWY Thanks for taking the time to look in to this valuable feature for the future of simulated modern warfare operations within DCS. Yes of course, I am aware of the existing possibilities with FARPS and a combo of vehicles, unfortunately they remain static for the duration of the mission, which defeats the purpose of allocating supplies to a randomly evolving front line. Helicopters are slow and as maps get increasingly bigger; this will increase the time they can remain in contact with the front line, reducing ferry flights to bases and FARPS provided they manage to remain fairly undamaged.

Here is a link to a video showcasing HB Viggen workaround since they do not have access to the source code : AJS37 Viggen: Building A Road Side Re-Arm Base FARP Tutorial | DCS WORLD

It would be nice to have a clean code that allows players to rearm within the radius of a vehicles combination, provided the airframe is WoW. This could be limited to Fuel and Ammo, living the repair capabilities to major airfields for the sake of realism and mission balance.

In SP, players will manage balance since having unlimited resources could be considered a cheat in MP, maybe opening the way to a more ambitious front line supply chain project, where fuel and ammo from trucks could be limited by their payload capacity. Reloading trucks could be done by simply making them transit near a FARP or an airfield, dynamically depleting limited resources with perhaps time constrains on loading and unloading as it is currently done for rearm/repair/refuel.

But again, what I am asking is simple, just please give us access to the rearm/refuel window when close to a set combo of vehicles. This should not be limited to choppers, F18C and other airframes can also rearm from roads in real life.

Thanks

@Dangerzone Thanks for your help and interest in logistics and supplies in the battlefield, I will check the MOOSE script but, I am really after a simple and clean solution like what was done by HB for the Viggen, without the need to use the checklist shortcuts as demostrated in the video linked. Just nice and easy refuel/rearm from trucks.

Best,

Lau

Edited March 12, 2024 by Lau

[evanf117]

On 3/12/2024 at 11:14 PM, draconus said:

1. ammo

2. fuel

3. comms

4. power, ground crew, repair, nav...

 

 

ah, ive always just used a truck, a Humvee and fuel

[rob10]

1 hour ago, evanf117 said:

ah, ive always just used a truck, a Humvee and fuel

This is a really good guide as to what is absolutely necessary for various functions.  It also has "current" unit names (which the DCS documentation doesn't currently)

www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/3318569/

[Dangerzone]

Well, we have evidence IRL that Apache's at least have had mobile repair available to them at non-airport / non-FARP locations.   In this case, it seems a black hawk was all that was needed to fly in for repair of the helicopter. 

It may be that ED doesn't want to include general units being able to rearm/refuel/repair aircraft outside of FARP's due to marketing reasons. (ie - they may be planning on having this feature exclusive to the CH-47 to encourage more sales), although this would only really work in MP environments, and the general consensus is that MP is only a fraction of DCS sales, so who knows. 

[rob10]

23 minutes ago, Dangerzone said:

It may be that ED doesn't want to include general units being able to rearm/refuel/repair aircraft outside of FARP's due to marketing reasons. (ie - they may be planning on having this feature exclusive to the CH-47 to encourage more sales), although this would only really work in MP environments, and the general consensus is that MP is only a fraction of DCS sales, so who knows. 

That seems a little paranoid.  Theoretically a guy with a backpack could hike 30 miles from the nearest base to fix it depending what the issue was.  I really can't see why they would restrict rearm/refuel/repair for marketing reasons.  I suspect it's more down to doing it somewhere else being not highly requested minor case so not worth the effort.

[Dangerzone]

1 hour ago, rob10 said:

That seems a little paranoid.  Theoretically a guy with a backpack could hike 30 miles from the nearest base to fix it depending what the issue was.  I really can't see why they would restrict rearm/refuel/repair for marketing reasons.  I suspect it's more down to doing it somewhere else being not highly requested minor case so not worth the effort.

Not sure where the paranoia is. It would make marketing sense to exclude something that could be included in a release of a module to encourage sales. I'm not saying that's what they're doing - but I'm not saying that it's not a possibility. If anything, I'm being optimistic - not paranoid - because I'd be delighted if we end up with these features with the CH-47 and C-130. That would be far better than the alternative that you're suggesting - that it's not worth the effort for them, and we'd never see it. 

Edited March 19, 2024 by Dangerzone

[rob10]

2 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

Not sure where the paranoia is. It would make marketing sense to exclude something that could be included in a release of a module to encourage sales. I'm not saying that's what they're doing - but I'm not saying that it's not a possibility. If anything, I'm being optimistic - not paranoid - because I'd be delighted if we end up with these features with the CH-47 and C-130. That would be far better than the alternative that you're suggesting - that it's not worth the effort for them, and we'd never see it. 

Fair enough.  I was just meaning that ED typically doesn't withhold new functionality unless it takes a lot time/effort to develop (a la the supercarrier).

[draconus]

8 hours ago, Dangerzone said:

It may be that ED doesn't want to include general units being able to rearm/refuel/repair aircraft outside of FARP's due to marketing reasons. (ie - they may be planning on having this feature exclusive to the CH-47 to encourage more sales)

Doesn't make sense. If a unit will be given this functionality, other similar role player and AI units will have to get it as well.

[Dangerzone]

At the moment this function already exists, but just for the Vigen, so it seems that it doesn't have to apply to other units - it comes down to what the dev's decide. None of us really know what decisions are made or the reasons for them behind closed doors.

Anyway - time will tell whether these features are released with the CH-47 or not.

[okopanja]

So, how does it take to unpack/pack/move FARP IRL?

Does this even make a sense in DCS mission lasting typically 3-8 hours?

[Dangerzone]

38 minutes ago, okopanja said:

So, how does it take to unpack/pack/move FARP IRL?

Does this even make a sense in DCS mission lasting typically 3-8 hours?

I have played multi-player persistent campaigns that have lasted up to a whole year to complete. I can't speak for those who only play 3-8 hour missions, but there's a whole wide world of different persistent scenario's out there on various multiplayer servers where the ability to have dynamic FARPS would be a huge benefit. 

[Lau]

On 3/20/2024 at 12:23 AM, okopanja said:

So, how does it take to unpack/pack/move FARP IRL?

Does this even make a sense in DCS mission lasting typically 3-8 hours?

About your question I am not an expert, but depending on the complexity of the FARP from a couple of hours to weeks. However it is easy to fill a truck with ammo and fuel and deliver it to the front line provided the truck does not get blown up on its way. As I wrote, the payload limitations of the truck could apply to make it more realistic. This could be specially handy for airframes with limited ammo payload and of course would be available to any airframe in DCS provided it can land and taxi near the trucks, even WW2 planes in an open field, the possibilities are endless.

It does on the scenarios I set up in the ME lasting around two to three hours depending on how I perform... With the performance increase it is becoming now possible to have a moving and dynamic front line based on triggers and for the high end machines even multiple front lines. The AH64D is so deadly that to make it even, I generally add multiple front lines that attack a single objective, generally my starting point. After one hour vehicles have spread all around the map requiring a form of local support (refuel/rearm) to stop the columns of vehicles once they have been spotted. Dealing with moving and fast vehicles makes the game more interesting IMO.

I am still to try persistent missions, what would you recommend for SP?

Best,

Lau

Edited March 31, 2024 by Lau

[DD_Friar]

So as of December 2024 I have just tried to do the following WITHOUT SUCCESS (is it me?)

• Place a player flown Apache in the middle of nowhere on a map. Cold start.
• Placed a M939 Heavy, M978 HEMTT, Humvee Scout and Unarmed, FARP Ammo and FARP Fuel all within touching distance of the Apache

Tried to go to the comms menu and call up ground crew to rearm and repair/refuel and nothing happens.

The above is in testing for having a supply convoy drive to a location that player flown helicopters could land at to RRR.

nullFor this to work I have to place a FARP (invisible or otherwise)?

Surly this could be made to work without the FARP, I thought that what he range circle around the Heavy was for?

[cfrag]

2 hours ago, DD_Friar said:

For this to work I have to place a FARP (invisible or otherwise)?

Unfortunately, yes.

2 hours ago, DD_Friar said:

Surly this could be made to work without the FARP,

Yes, but not with current DCS. Game-wise I suspect that the game engine needs the FARP to create the comms menu at the location to be able to command the infrastructure to refuel and rearm player's aircraft.

I know that there was some experimental scripted dynamically spawning FARPs in the past year, but without reserving them first, I *believe* that to still be a no-go. A bit disappointing since I was trying to bring some 'fat cow' scenarios to DCS. Right now I think that ad-hoc refueling in DCS is not possible. 

Edited December 14, 2024 by cfrag