Troop Transport Embarking/Disembarking

[Daemoc]

Ok, this is going to be a long one. I am not even sure what I am attempting to do is even possible, but that is the reason for this post.

I am finally trying to sit down and create a complicated custom mission. Something I would like to finish and share with others rather than the little experiments I have been doing up until now.

I can get troops to embark and disembark from transports if I keep it in a single unit and single stage. But let's say I want to drop troops, have them do a task, then pick them up again...  That just refuses to work.

Then I tried to just fake it and spawn in a new group to pick up rather than the original drop group. I have had strings of tasks work without issue, only to add a trigger that involves spawning a new unit and it will break everything. No editing way points, tasks, nothing. Just adding a trigger to the map spawning a new unit that can be transported.

The original troops refuse to embark after that. Not only that, the only way I can fix that when it breaks is to completely delete all of the units tasks and re-do them from scratch.

I spent the better part of 8 hours trying to get this to work and I still don't know what the issue is. It makes no sense whatsoever. Tasks that work one second just seem to break for no reason and can't be fixed unless I delete and re-do everything.

I could kick a puppy at this point.

 

Have others had any luck transporting troops more than once? Am I doing something wrong or am I just trying to do something that cannot be done?

[Tippis]

Short answer, you're asking too much.

The built-in tasks work ok… ish… for two specific scenarios:

1. You want some background/decorative activity on an airbase while the player gets started up in their aircraft.
2. You want to run a very brief helo transport mission where troops run up to you and jump in, and then you dump them somewhere — end of mission.

The problem is that both the helo's load and the ground units' embark tasks only work on the first waypoint. As in, it's the first thing they do as soon as they go active. They can unload/disembark at later stages (although, for the ground units, that will always be waypoint 2 since they obviously can't do anything while loaded in the helo). But that's it. Like many special waypoint actions, they were made once upon a time to do a single thing, and have never been revisited as the game has grown and added more units or more helos or more situations that you can create with other functions added to the game (see, for example, everything involving AI JTAC).

What you want can be done, but you'll need to go the scripting route and find a framework or package that is tailored to your needs, with the scripting telling the units what to do and when rather than the built-in waypoint actions. I've long since lost track of what works best since others have been doing the heavy lifting on the helo mission creation side, but back in my day, CTLD was the go-to option for most of that stuff. No guarantees as to whether it still works or is sensible any more.

[Daemoc]

Well...

...that sucks.

Hey, at least I can quit trying to get it to work now. I was literally about to go insane. I already made a few changes and it seems to work. It is not what I originally wanted, but the main idea is still there so not all is lost.

I guess I will really have to start digging into the scripting.

Thanks for the info.

[SUNTSAG]

@Daemoc Here is a simple working example of what I think you might be trying to achieve.

1.       AI Helo takes-off from home base empty.

2.       Helo flys to a field collection point LZ1 and picks up Special Forces troops.

3.       Helo flys to LZ2 and drops troops off. (Insertion)

4.       Helo takes off and orbits in the area and troops make their way to LZ3.

5.       Troops request pick up at LZ3 and helo obliges.(Extraction)

6.       Helo flys back to base and disembarks Special Forces troops.

7.       Helo then lands on the airfield pan.

It’s not a simple process but it does only require 2 triggers to work and a couple of flags. Look closely at the setup for the units. I hope this helps. Cheers.

helospecialforces.trk 2heloUH60.miz

Edited March 17, 2024 by SUNTSAG

[ex81]

As always, Suntsag has the working solution for your Problem. From my own mission building I know that after disembarked Troops there can be other options like _go to waypoint x_ or attack enemies as long as they are in range. And even a second embarking for going home works. And all of this without scripting. Because I have no bloody idea how scripting works. Could upload such mission, but there are many mods involved, so I think it woud`nt work.

[Tippis]

Note the trick to SUNTSAG's mission: only the first embark is done via the Embark waypoint task, because that's the only way that task works. Similarly with the first disembark. Everything else has to be pushed onto the units and thus relies on having timing triggers and making sure everyone involved is in the right place at the right time so that it can actually be resolved, or the units will just freeze up and not do anything. Hence the need for delaying actions and stop conditions and timing the waypoints out so that you know for certain that the task to be stopped happens in the right order in the queue.

If and when you introduce players into the mix, that will of course create its own problems since they don't really respond to AI commands and conditions. And heaven help you if you mix up "TASK PUSH" and "TASK SET".

The scripting solution basically works the same, with directly setting commands for the AI units, only it does so in a much more readable way. You can create a single list of conditions as to what should happen when to which units, rather than having to bounce between groups and N different trigger setups.

[Daemoc]

Awesome, thanks for the examples. I will definitely take a look at those.

I am not opposed to using tricks or faking things to get around certain issues, that's for sure. Even if it does not work for this particular mission, it is always nice to have options.

I think I have to learn the scripting to accomplish what I am attempting though. This mission I am working on, while the biggest one I've done yet, is still rather simple. If I am having this much trouble now, I can only imagine the headache I will run into later. It would not be so bad if I did not have to completely redo everything once something breaks. Hopefully that will not be the case when using scripts.

Thanks again for the info and tips gents.

[MortalMando]

@Daemoc Hey mate, Im trying exatctly the same. Really struggeling with the unreliable system. Did you get anywhere? Currently there are more then 20h spend on the mission and it still isnt working as intended. 

 

[Nealius]

Is embark broken for client aircraft? I can get it to work for AI just fine, but as a client there's no "embark" option under the F7-airborne troops menu.

EDIT: Disregard. It seems the type of vehicle must be selected. If left on "any" it won't work with client aircraft.

Edited August 13, 2024 by Nealius

[Daemoc]

On 8/10/2024 at 10:49 AM, MortalMando said:

@Daemoc Hey mate, Im trying exatctly the same. Really struggeling with the unreliable system. Did you get anywhere? Currently there are more then 20h spend on the mission and it still isnt working as intended. 

 

Sorry for the late reply, I have been busy with work and have not been online in a while.

The only way I found to accomplish my particular goal was to keep all unit tasks to a single stage. If I had multiple tasks, I would have to fake it with different units.

Example:

Spawn a unit, (Troop 1), that needed transport and have them embark then disembark and perform a task.

After Troop 1 preformed their task, I would remove Troop 1 from the map and spawn a new unit (Troop 2) and have them pick up the next embark, disembark, task.

Then remove Troop 2 and spawn a Troop 3 etc, until I completed the missions tasks.

It's not ideal, but it worked.

[MortalMando]

Am 27.8.2024 um 21:19 schrieb Daemoc:

Sorry for the late reply, I have been busy with work and have not been online in a while.

The only way I found to accomplish my particular goal was to keep all unit tasks to a single stage. If I had multiple tasks, I would have to fake it with different units.

Example:

Spawn a unit, (Troop 1), that needed transport and have them embark then disembark and perform a task.

After Troop 1 preformed their task, I would remove Troop 1 from the map and spawn a new unit (Troop 2) and have them pick up the next embark, disembark, task.

Then remove Troop 2 and spawn a Troop 3 etc, until I completed the missions tasks.

It's not ideal, but it worked.

Hey thanks for the reply. I’ve played around a lot with the system as well and might have a different fix. It’s not 100% tested but on the latest run I was able to get the following to work:

2 Vehicle (M1) have troops (T1) embarked from the start.
they drive to a site perform a random task and T1 are disembarking - immediately after T1 disembark, M1 go into a 3min hold.
T1 now perform their task. 
2 vehicle (M2) now pick up T1 instead of M1. 
 

Basically having troops embark and disembark into the same group was not possible for me but they can be picked up by a different group. This isn’t bad to be honest but a little counter intuitive. Try it out yourself and let me know how it works for you - it should be easier for the mission builders this way. 

Edited August 29, 2024 by MortalMando