w.i.p. Flight model - Tail rotor thrust

[schoolio64D]

Overall, the flight model feels pretty good, with one notable exception - tail rotor thrust. There seems to be way too much right pedal required in level flight, regardless of airspeed.

At roughly 100-110 KIAS, the vertical fin should have enough airflow to counter the torque effect at a cruise power setting, meaning the pedals should be roughly neutral. At slower speeds or higher power settings, therefore, you would anticipate needing MORE anti-torque effect, or left pedal. However, it seems that a significant amount of right pedal is required at speeds less than cruise. At those speeds, the vertical fin is not as effective, requiring more left pedal, but I find myself needing right pedal to keep the aircraft in trim.

Thanks for all the work in getting this aircraft to where it is. It gives us geezers a chance to re-live our youth.

[bradmick]

It's not so much the tail rotor as it's the main rotor applying to much torque which then requires the tail rotor produce to much thrust to balance things out. It's a known issue that's been around since the launch of the module.

[TZeer]

Nice to see people with the knowledge mentioning this. Always felt the yaw a little bit "funky". But as I'm not a pilot, I would have no idea if it's supposed to be like this.

Is this also the reason for the excessive "crabbing" while in aerodynamic trim? @bradmick @schoolio64D

[bradmick]

39 minutes ago, TZeer said:

Nice to see people with the knowledge mentioning this. Always felt the yaw a little bit "funky". But as I'm not a pilot, I would have no idea if it's supposed to be like this.

Is this also the reason for the excessive "crabbing" while in aerodynamic trim? @bradmick @schoolio64D

As i've stated elsewhere, yes.

[Antix70]

You would think with having someone on the closed beta test team that has ACTUAL REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE, that actually trains Army pilots to fly this thing, and has quite often detailed issues with the flight models, coupled with the many times ED has stated "apache flight model updates" that things would move in the right direction. Really no excuse that it hasn't, honestly.

[Floyd1212]

They have certainly been working on other aspects of the module, and I think the FM is very workable where it is right now.  There are known issues, like the crabbing mentioned above, and rolling to the left when diving, break-out values for the hold modes, etc., but they recently gave us the FCR, and DL, though those are both still not working fully in MP.  The upcoming LINK and C-SCOPE will be very nice.

Assuming they do come back to the FM and tweak it further down the road, I'm okay with it for now.  I am concerned, however, that making some of these adjustments will mean compromises elsewhere, and they have gotten themselves into a situation with the FM where making these small adjustments is not easy, and will upset other aspects of the FM. Or else, like you suggested, if it were an easy fix, why haven't they made the fix(es) already?

[Tom P]

On 4/14/2024 at 8:21 PM, Antix70 said:

You would think with having someone on the closed beta test team that has ACTUAL REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE, that actually trains Army pilots to fly this thing, and has quite often detailed issues with the flight models, coupled with the many times ED has stated "apache flight model updates" that things would move in the right direction. Really no excuse that it hasn't, honestly.

Watch out that kind of talk is what gets posts/threads deleted. 

[Raptor9]

2 hours ago, Tom P said:

Watch out that kind of talk is what gets posts/threads deleted. 

@Tom P, posts that are in violation of the forum rules will get removed. Specifically, if it is in violation of Rule 1.10, meaning it is non-constructive, insulting, or condescending, it will be removed. If feedback is provided in a constructive and mature manner, it will not be removed. Simple as that, and this is nothing new.
______________________________________________

In regards to this entire thread, the flight dynamics team will continue to work on the flight model to ensure it meets the quality that is expected of DCS. We understand the frustration with the lack of progress updates, but the lack of updates is not indicative of a lack of progress or development. The complexity of any simulated flight model of a helicopter cannot be over-stated. These things take time, you will need to be patient.

If anyone has anything constructive to add to this conversation, then by all means provide it. But if this thread is simply going to turn into a rage against the development process or the ED staff, it will be promptly moderated and closed.

[Tom P]

4 hours ago, Raptor9 said:

@Tom P, posts that are in violation of the forum rules will get removed. Specifically, if it is in violation of Rule 1.10, meaning it is non-constructive, insulting, or condescending, it will be removed. If feedback is provided in a constructive and mature manner, it will not be removed. Simple as that, and this is nothing new.
______________________________________________

In regards to this entire thread, the flight dynamics team will continue to work on the flight model to ensure it meets the quality that is expected of DCS. We understand the frustration with the lack of progress updates, but the lack of updates is not indicative of a lack of progress or development. The complexity of any simulated flight model of a helicopter cannot be over-stated. These things take time, you will need to be patient.

If anyone has anything constructive to add to this conversation, then by all means provide it. But if this thread is simply going to turn into a rage against the development process or the ED staff, it will be promptly moderated and closed.

Apologies it's not meant to be rage against the development or towards the staff.

[BigBANGtheory]

On 4/17/2024 at 8:41 PM, Raptor9 said:

If anyone has anything constructive to add to this conversation, then by all means provide it. But if this thread is simply going to turn into a rage against the development process or the ED staff, it will be promptly moderated and closed.

I can't overstate how impressed I am with the Apache module warts and all tbh, I've noticed the same issue as @schoolio64D and thought it was off but I've no doubt it can't be adjusted. Thanks for reporting it and look forward to the flight model improvements.

[Hotel Tango]

Hi, any news on this issue?

Excessive "crabbing" and too much torque could really be looked into soon, as the rest of the module is pretty much superb.

[Gierasimov]

I thought I am bad virtual Apache pilot. I like the fact that this is going to be tweaked eventually.