unable to reproduce HARM and EW Problem?

[bonesvf103]

My friend played WIld Weasel.  He flew his F-16 over the SAM and the SAM spiked him, but I got nothing on my RWR.  The SAM even fired and I still got nothing on my RWR, so I couldn't fire my HARM to kill the SAM.

I dunno what's up with that.

Scroll to 5:00 into the mission and the trackfile.  He says he's being locked by an SA-3.  I never see it in my RWR.  He even launches and I see it.  The RWR goes on, but for a AAA site, not the SA-3. My buddy gets shot down because I couldn't kill the SAM.

Is something wrong?  This is not the first time it happened.

This should be the track file:

server-20240501-231010.trk

 

thanks!

 

v6,

boNes

[Raisuli]

29 minutes ago, bonesvf103 said:

My friend played WIld Weasel.  He flew his F-16 over the SAM and the SAM spiked him, but I got nothing on my RWR.  The SAM even fired and I still got nothing on my RWR, so I couldn't fire my HARM to kill the SAM.

I dunno what's up with that.

Scroll to 5:00 into the mission and the trackfile.  He says he's being locked by an SA-3.  I never see it in my RWR.  He even launches and I see it.  The RWR goes on, but for a AAA site, not the SA-3. My buddy gets shot down because I couldn't kill the SAM.

Is something wrong?  This is not the first time it happened.

This should be the track file:

server-20240501-231010.trk 32.15 MB · 2 downloads

 

thanks!

 

v6,

boNes

32 meg track file is pretty brutal; I got about 10 minutes into it with nothing going on.

In the video you guys are WAY too close; that viper had no chance at all at 5:25 flying right over the top of the launcher, and the HARM launch right after with no seekers visible, let alone locked, was wasted.  That was iron bomb range.  Against an SA-3 (if I heard that right) the HARM has longer legs than the SAM.

Another way to look at this is with Tacview if you have it.

 

[Lord Vader]

Hi @bonesvf103

Unfortunately that track doesn't seem to be replaying correctly. So I just observed your video.

There are many items to consider when placing a SAM site. The most obvious is coverage and obstacles, but it also needs to have proper components to it.
Does that site contain a P19 "flat face" for continuous search? Considering you didn't have its "mud" (S), I'd say it's missing from the group.
It most likely only had a "low blow" tracking station and that's designed to track a single target. Considering your friend was shot down but not you, this could very well be the case.

I'd suggest you place this trio of units and test again in the same conditions. I did just that and it seemed to work fine.

[bonesvf103]

Thanks for the insight.  The units were placed by a script (Through the Inferno), and I can see it locking up a single target, I just thought I'd pick up that electromagnetic burst.  So yes, perhaps I need more knowledge of how these things work.  It was a beautiful kill on the SAM's part though, wasn't it?  Haha.

Would you happen to know of any sites that explain these systems and how they operate?

v6,

boNes

Edited May 6, 2024 by bonesvf103

[Kurnass1977]

Why you don't try to go in TOO?

The S/A show the site so personally I'll shift the Opportunity mode

[Foka]

According to SA format your friend was on the other side of the SAM. So if target (your friend) is west of the SAM, and you're east - it's impossible that you receive tracking signal from SAM's radar. It's directional, not omnidirectional.

[Lord Vader]

On 5/6/2024 at 2:34 PM, bonesvf103 said:

Would you happen to know of any sites that explain these systems and how they operate?

There is some information on the DCS encyclopaedia that can help you understand some of these systems. It's not an extensive description, though, just general information.

There are also some open source sites that list the most common air defense systems, their capabilities and operational usage.
A quick search will reveal several, I'm sure. 

[bonesvf103]

Thanks, I've looked at several sites over the years but tend to find information that is either contradictory of others or not complete enough.  But I'll keep looking, thanks!

 

On 5/6/2024 at 2:00 PM, Kurnass1977 said:

Why you don't try to go in TOO?

The S/A show the site so personally I'll shift the Opportunity mode

Those targets were randomly generated so I don't think SA mode would show them.  What is in the SA page is not accurate.  But, I stayed in SP mode since it would automatically switch to the spiking target, making it quicker to deal with.  If I was in TOO, I'd have to cycle and discern through targets, then handoff, then pickle, which takes more time IMHO.

v6,

boNes

Edited May 8, 2024 by bonesvf103

[Kurnass1977]

Il 8/5/2024 at 14:51, bonesvf103 ha scritto:

Thanks, I've looked at several sites over the years but tend to find information that is either contradictory of others or not complete enough.  But I'll keep looking, thanks!

 

Those targets were randomly generated so I don't think SA mode would show them.  What is in the SA page is not accurate.  But, I stayed in SP mode since it would automatically switch to the spiking target, making it quicker to deal with.  If I was in TOO, I'd have to cycle and discern through targets, then handoff, then pickle, which takes more time IMHO.

v6,

boNes

 

True, from what I see from the video I'll try TOO, but undoubtley SP is a more quick response to the threat

[Muchocracker]

If this PPLI is in fact your buddy. Then the radar is looking in almost the exact opposite direction of you.

DCS's RWR's don't have rear and side lobe radiation modelled. So you're not going to get any warning unless you're in its defined beamwidth (main lobe)