Issue with Ms FFB2

[Mamakin]

Hello, everyone. I have the following problem with Microsoft FFB2 joystick:

It is virtually impossible to get the Phantom to trim correctly. I can't get the vertical speed to zero, I have also tried the correct procedure for engaging the autopilot but altitude hold is continually rejected. When I succeed, even with the switches both on, the plane goes up or down. Same problem with F14. With all other modules no problem, the harrier has the same auto pilot system and it works correctly. 

Am I doing something wrong? Suggestions? 

Thanks 

 

 

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)

[Super Grover]

Hey, @Mamakin, thank you for your message. Could you upload a track exposing the problems you described? I also own this joystick and checked the AFCS behaviour right before the release and confirmed that everything was working correctly. We need to start by identifying if the problem is a bug in the code or some problem with how the software runs on your end.

[Phantom12]

I noticed on a flight yesterday I could trim and when I let go of the stick it would not end up over the little diamond in the controls indicator. Trying to engage Alt Hold would immediately cause pitch breakout and disengage itself. If I put the stick over the little diamond (zero force position?) in the controls indicator I could engage Alt Hold but letting go of the stick it would pull itself away and past the pitch breakout again. Unless I misunderstand what the little diamond is I thought stick forces should be balanced at that point.

 

Ill try and replicate and post a track later today.

[Mamakin]

Hi. Ok as soon as possibile I’ll post a track. Let me know if you need more info. Glad to help

[schmiefel]

50 minutes ago, Phantom12 said:

If I put the stick over the little diamond (zero force position?) in the controls indicator I could engage Alt Hold but letting go of the stick it would pull itself away and past the pitch breakout again. Unless I misunderstand what the little diamond is I thought stick forces should be balanced at that point.

I never tried that kind of 'procedure' but I stumbled upon some difficulties applying trim with my inputs, too. See my description in this thread over there:

Maybe that's just another side of (maybe) a 'problem' or just some shortcomings our simplified gaming controls suffer from that the real jet with its hydraulics and mechanics never has? Or its just that real Pilots feel more by their pants, what the Jet does and can react intuitive? One should never forget that normally we don't feel any moving masses etc. when steering those aircraft from our armchair. Maybe a really good FFB solution combined with bass shakers or moving rigs could help. But that's all beyond the financial capabilities of most of us so we just can handle this stuff by looking at the gauges ... and maybe get some software workarounds to help with it?

[Mamakin]

F4 trim.trk

11 ore fa, Super Grover ha scritto:

Hey, @Mamakin, thank you for your message. Could you upload a track exposing the problems you described? I also own this joystick and checked the AFCS behaviour right before the release and confirmed that everything was working correctly. We need to start by identifying if the problem is a bug in the code or some problem with how the software runs on your end.

Here the track were I try to trim the plane and engage AFCS. I've fail to

I have to say that i need to add the file dinput8.dll in the bin and bin-mt folder, otherwise my MSFFB2 would be unusable.

Let mi know if you need more.

[Mamakin]

I've tried these settings and it seems to be better, still not easy but better:

FFB gain to 300% Y and X     - Y curve to 0. dead zone 6

It takes some time but I've managed to turn on the Alt Hold and it looks stable.

F4 trim 2.trk

Edited May 25, 2024 by Mamakin

[Phantom12]

Tried it out with a few different settings and was able to replicate it. If I centre the diamonds I can activate Alt Hold but there is enough nose up force to cause a pitch breakout pretty quickly. If you hold them together the autotrim starts trimming nose up until either breakout or the 4G AFCS limit shuts it off again.

 

Idk if running a very high breakout setting might allow it to be used in the meantime without the problems above, but if people are desparate for ALT HOLD it might be worth a try.

F-4 FFB Trim 1% breakout.trk F-4 FFB Trim 2% breakout.trk

[Domestos]

I've set my AFCS breakout deadzone to 5% pitch and roll and it's cured the problem for my FFB2. I might start nibbling it back to see what effect it has.

[firefox121]

I owns The msffb 2 also, It has two problems, first, if you don't cover the "dead man" ir sensor, at the moment you release the joy it looses all the forces , so the stick moves and the afcs disconects, I put a rubber tape on mine to prevent this, the other issue is the center deadzone, that moves witout fotce many milimeters, try to adjust dead zones, also to put at the gimbal some source of resistance (in my case velcro soft face) in order to prevent undwanted mini  movements......here attach you a photo of my "solution".

Also play with afcs breakout zones

Edited May 27, 2024 by firefox121

[JupiterJoe]

FYI, I had this problem with my MS Sidewinder FFB2 and the F-14.  I found that if you don't blank off the grip sensor on the stick, Autopilot is all but un-useable.

My stick rocks slowly back and forth a slight amount in AP, when in Attitude Hold.   Does everyone's FFB2 stick do this?  I think this sometimes causes the stick to break-out of AP grab. 

Edited June 25, 2024 by JupiterJoe

[Foxmike]

Yes, the FFB2 makes problems around it's natural deadzone where the motors don't engage. I did many tests and now it is working as intended. Don't use any deadzone in the FFB2 or axis settings. Apply at least a deadzone of 4-5 (roll and pitch) and compare that to your hardware deadzone, but in the F4 special tab only. The FFB strength settings are not that  important, do like you want. My FFB2 is tuned with resistors for twice the force, so I use different values at all. You must fly well trimmed then or ground attacks and aerial refuelings cause pain in the a.... with a bouncing pitch axis around the dead zones. Only after putting these dead zones I was able to hit bullseye with dumb bombs and stay in formation with the tanker. And always as in real life trim, trim,trim, no pressure on the fingers, no blood in the finger nails.

[Mamakin]

Just for share. The problem was the MSFFB2, maybe after more than 20 years....

Now I have the FFBeast and the problem is gone. The F4 with this joy is even more amazing! So happy!

Great job!

[JupiterJoe]

Did you sell your FFB2 on ebay?  I recently bought a second-hand one and I suspect it isn't working as it should.

[Mamakin]

Il 30/09/2024 at 16:43, JupiterJoe ha scritto:

Did you sell your FFB2 on ebay?  I recently bought a second-hand one and I suspect it isn't working as it should.

No. I keep it.