No being "locked in STT sound by other aircraft" for the F5 RWR?

[darkman222]

Sorry for this extra topic for such a simple question, but there is so much threads about the RWR, being right, being wrong. Has been fixed etc. What is the latest state about the F5 RWR?

Having flown the the more modern 4th Gen jets, that all will give a RWR warning when being locked in STT by another jet, it seems like the F5 RWR can only give you a sound if you get nails by the jets around, at least for the first time RWR detects them.

But no RWR spike for STT lock?

Can I do something about it? Or is it just like that by design of the old RWR?

Edited June 11, 2024 by darkman222

[edup71]

I was flying a mission yesterday and i could see the other F-5 on the screen (actually not all the time), but none of the migs just in front of me!

I do not believe it is fixed...

[darkman222]

Well the question is:

When another jet is STT locking me in the F5 and my RWR just does not do anything, is it considered:

-Correct as is

-Broken

-Fixed and broken again

-pending fix

 

What ever it may be. It is pretty useful knowing if one is being STT locked... Even a Mig19 with a way more rudimentary RWR has a sound for STT lock.

Edited June 11, 2024 by darkman222

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

Something to keep in mind, is that you don't get lock tones from airborne radars in the F-4 either (which has been confirmed as being correct), and both systems are from generally the same era.

[Bucic]

57 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Something to keep in mind, is that you don't get lock tones from airborne radars in the F-4 either (which has been confirmed as being correct), and both systems are from generally the same era.

Source?

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

16 minutes ago, Bucic said:

Source?

Heatblur

[Bucic]

6 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Heatblur

Anyone care to explain in more detail then, why it's the case?

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

9 minutes ago, Bucic said:

Anyone care to explain in more detail then, why it's the case?

Early RHAW gear was designed to warn crews of the presence and current activity of S-75 batteries. Airborne radar guided threats didn’t exist at the time.

Edited August 9, 2024 by Raven (Elysian Angel)

[Bucic]

17 hours ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Early RHAW gear was designed to warn crews of the presence and current activity of S-75 batteries. Airborne radar guided threats didn’t exist at the time.

 

Something doesn't add up. F-5E RWR clearly has airborne radar warning capabilities.

EDIT:

To me it's so unbelievable in case if F-5E I am no inclined to accept a reference to F-4x realities. Is it even the same system in F-4? AN/ALR-56M 87 (based on 46) /EDIT/ that is.

 

 

Edited August 10, 2024 by Bucic

[nairb121]

1 hour ago, Bucic said:

Something doesn't add up. F-5E RWR clearly has airborne radar warning capabilities.

EDIT:

To me it's so unbelievable in case if F-5E I am no inclined to accept a reference to F-4x realities. Is it even the same system in F-4? AN/ALR-56M that is.

 

 

 

The F-5E modeled in DCS uses the ALR-87 I believe, which has very little public documentation. I agree that it should be very similar in capabilities to other similar RWRs, but it's difficult to prove.

[Bucic]

2 hours ago, nairb121 said:

The F-5E modeled in DCS uses the ALR-87 I believe, which has very little public documentation. I agree that it should be very similar in capabilities to other similar RWRs, but it's difficult to prove.

I stand corrected, AN/ALR-87 is indeed the unit we have in DCS for the F-5E. The real flight manuals for the F-5 usually only mention ALR-46(V), even on the E-series upgrade matrix.

 

I've got the US Patent No 4,176,468 downloaded but I haven't found anything sensational for DCS-heads in it.

 

The RL flight manuals for the F-5 point for the ALR-46 series RWR to T.O. 1F-5E-34-1-1-4 section of the Weapons Delivery Manual. The following article sets things straight

https://www.militaryperiscope.com/weapons/sensorselectronics/electronic-support-measureselectronic-warfare/analr-87/overview/

The ALR-87 was designed specifically for the Swiss air force. Based on the ALR-46 (at one time it was called the ALR-46I and is a form/fit replacement for the ALR-46), the system employs a unique pre-processing technique in order to maximize throughput with frequency being measured pulse-to-pulse b y an IFM receiver.

The equipment operates without saturating in signal densities of several million pulses per second.

The ALR-87 can incorporate a superheterodyne receiver to...

So the systems should be equivalent operation-logic-wise. Unfortunately I think no-one cared to update that 1-1-4 supplement status to non-confidential and it still isn't available publicly.

 

Thought the following site begs to differ:

http://www.newportaero.com/home/manuals/technical_orders/browse/___88574/air_force_technical_order_search.php?q=1F-5E-34-1-1-4&stype=TO+number

What ED team could do is at least ask for a quote. I'm not joking.

 

[Hobel]

Am 9.8.2024 um 15:25 schrieb Raven (Elysian Angel):

Something to keep in mind, is that you don't get lock tones from airborne radars in the F-4 either (which has been confirmed as being correct), and both systems are from generally the same era.

It depends, even if the F4 makes no sound, something happens during an STT(But of course not always). Sometimes it is very subtle and you have to be very attentive.

It's best to create a mission and with the respective system and observe exactly when the RWR does what.

Some systems, for example, show "unknown" when in search mode, and a track then says "SA2" or something similar.  

This is not a direct warning but extremely useful information.

Edited December 1, 2024 by Hobel