DCS World 2.9.5.55918 Constant Frame Time Spikes

[FierceLV]

Hi.

While playing DCS World I constantly getting Frame Time Spikes that manifest themselves in a less-than-one-second freezes, this in turn utterly kills the fun from the simulation experience that DCS World was built for.

I have a gaming PC, I think there is no need to list my mouse and keyboard.

Lowering all video settings doesn't remove the Frame Time Spikes, it only makes them occur less often.

Getting Frame Time Spikes on a gaming PC with DCS World at low settings is not normal, I think... but I might be wrong.

Most popular solution that I found on ED Forums for constant Frame Time Spikes was to kill the essential Windows Power process (?) (which didn't help).

More information on the nature of the notorious Frame Time Spikes:

When do they happen? They happen when you rotate the camera, when you look in a new direction, when new scene and it's objects enter the screen, when the picture on your screen changes, when you make high-G turns.

It is not hardware resource related, because resource monitor shows hardware usage at normal levels, with 80% GPU memory usage being the highest (other resources below 50% without noticeable spikes).

But why do they occur if it is not a hardware related issue? My guess is that the DCS World itself is very poorly optimized.

What is currently happening? You have a poor optimized resource-hungry simulation platform whose developers instead of one time focusing all efforts on complete-propper-optimization of the platform,
add more poorly optimized features ("THIS SOFTWARE CONTAINS NVIDIA SCRIPTING") on top of the current poor state of optimization, and the result is? "15 Years Of DCS World" and "DCS World 2.9 Constant Frame Time Spikes"

Check this out...

"15 Years Of DCS" featuring the "Forest Optimization":

1. Fly fast near tree tops.

2. Notice how all of your GPU resources are allocated to rendering each shadow of each tree (so important, especially when majority of shadows are not in line-of-sight).

3. Notice the lag.

4. Forest detail factor 0.1 ? Okay.

5. Fly over the forest and see how trees magically change their shape when you approach them - happens all the time in the real world.

Trees from Lock On - Modern Air Combat (YES) are better than "15 Years Of DCS Forest", how this came to be? Don't answer.

This leaves one with: "If only we could have the forest from Lock On - Modern Air Combat in DCS World..." - good sign right there.

Why would you let your creation be so poorly optimized and on top of that add more resource demanding features without addressing the base optimization problem of THE GAME?

"I tried to get rid of the Frame Time Spikes, and bought the NVIDIA 4K GTX instead of my NVIDIA 3K GTX, but it didn't help" - I didn't made this up, I have seen a post like this while searching for the solution on the ED Forums...

But maybe Eagle Dynamics have access to some top-secret military personal computer hardware technology that allows them to get constant 60 FPS on a 1920 x 1080 resolution with no Frame Time Spikes, without VR? Maybe they do, but I guess it's too much to ask for ordinary player (the 60 FPS)...

So what would be the solution to the "DCS World 2.9 Constant Frame Time Spikes" without killing the Windows (10)? Any one?

[Grindmetal]

try

 

https://forum.dcs.world/topic/353325-mouse-movement-impacting-framerate/#comment-5479573

[rubbra]

I see a 120ms frame roughly every 2 seconds, in VR, but only in multiplayer on Caucasus. My test case is to slot into a quiet MP server (1/2 players) at Kobuleti in the A10C-2 (though it does it in other modules). This reliably produces the periodic spike. Slot into a Syria server, same conditions and module, no periodic spike.

I've tried lowering the mouse poll rate as suggested above, no difference.

[The_Nephilim]

IDK, a log file could be helpfull, sysspecs. I have no issues with maintaining above 60FPS and I fly in VR. with wehre I have it set I avg above 80FPS and sometimes on 90FPS, I do not get stutter.

 

[sMashPiranha]

Try run the single thread dcs.exe in the \bin\ folder.  The multi thread exe is unplayable for me due to stuttering and hitching.

[rubbra]

I've removed lua hooks for both "Bergison's Moving Map" and "DCS Web Editor API", and this spike has gone away.

Might be worth exploring for others.

[FierceLV]

Thank you all for your attention.

Now let's get serious.

First of all for those who want to help need to know how I play DCS World.

It might sound strange, but I use only the keyboard to play DCS World (yes, it is possible, and yes, it is hardcore).

I play only in Offline Mode.

While flying I mainly use the Cockpit Camera, Orbit Camera, and Object Local Camera (which I use instead of built-in Chase Camera (which is no good, no good at all (because of the constant swaying that kills the whole idea of proper Chase Camera (fixed Chase Camera provides the feel of control of the aircraft))).

So why is this important? It is important because Frame Time Spikes that I get are directly linked to the camera movement.

When the picture on the screen barely changes (when I am flying and the camera is pointing in one direction) there are no Frame Time Spikes.

When completely turning the camera in another new direction (when the picture on the screen completely changes) one Frame Time Spike occurs, but only one. Keeping the camera pointing in that new direction introduces no new Frame Time Spikes (as if the Frame Time Spikes are directly linked with rendering the new picture on the screen). Continued rotation of camera introduces more Frame Time Spikes.

Also important to note that when I get one Frame Time Spike by rotating the camera in direction "X", and then rotate the camera in some other direction, and then rotate the camera back again in direction "X" I don't get a Frame Time Spike (as if the picture is already processed, and there is no need for resource consumption).

Now to the phenomena that generates the most Frame Time Spikes.

When I use the Local Object Camera as a Chase Camera I get a lot of Frame Time Spikes when performing high-G turns (picture on the screen changes rapidly), it looks something like this:

Check attached files to this post if the screenshots do not load from a image hosting website.

A small FPS drop that kills all the fun is clearly visible.

Now before I post my system specifications, it is important to note (again), that those Frame Time Spikes occur even on low settings, albeit much less often (but still).

Video card: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 with G-SYNC

Processor: Intel Core i7-12700KF

Ram: 32 GB, 4800 MHz speed

Disk: SSD

I am not a computer scientist, but getting Frame Time Spikes even when flying on low settings with this hardware is abnormal.

I really hope that some Forum Veteran from the Eagle Dynamics will read this post after my first post...

 

 

Edited July 13, 2024 by FierceLV

[FierceLV]

To prove my point that there is clearly something wrong with the DCS World itself, I will provide some more crucial information, but before that there must be some clarification.

The clarification:

1. Latest tests on my side were conducted on the latest DCS World version, which is 2.9.6.57650 .

2. Latest tests were conducted on the latest NVIDIA driver (556.12).

3. Latest tests were conducted on the lowest video settings (except the 1980 x 1020 screen resolution).

4. As far as I remember (I might be wrong) those Frame Time Spikes were nowhere to be found prior the 2.9 version update (the "15 Years Of DCS + NVIDIA advertisement screen update").

5. Clean standalone DCS World installation, no mods.

6. No bloatware running in the background.

And now the proof:

Exibit A - Low Video Settings

Exibit B - Frame Time Spike occurring on the low video settings.

Exibit C - Another example of a Frame Time Spike occurring on the low video settings, but this one is very important.

I got lucky by chance, and right at the moment when a forest some 300 meters ahead appears on the screen a Frame Time Spike occurs and drops the FPS, as if the appearance of the trees (new objects) on the screen cause the LAG.

In case the screenshots are not loading from the image hosting website, I have attached them to this post.

That's about it. The Frame Time Spikes...

Now someone might go: "But I play DCS World with constant 60 FPS with no Frame Time Spikes, with VR, all high settings, all good" - good for you, but this only shows that the DCS World is optimized poorly, optimized not for all players, optimized poorly even for players with decent personal computers.

Now taking into account the money involved in the cost of the modules, this current optimization state of the DCS World is really disrespectful towards the players. And there is only one thing that is going for the DCS World at this moment, and that is that there is no proper alternatives, it is like a monopoly, there is no game that allows one to fly the MiG-29 in such awesome detail.

Also important to note, that usually (like all the time) when I make a solid case like this one, some weird-unexpected-out-of-nowhere detail or mechanic appears that makes me completely wrong and look stupid - it can happen, but if it does, hopefully I will be able to fly that Su-27 without Frame Time Spikes, again.

Thank you for your attention.

[towsim]

I have the same problems and up to now, no final solution for it. It’s indeed frustrating when performance hiccups affect the overall experience. Let’s break down some of the points you’ve raised:

1. Billboard Management and Background Images:
   • I have identified that billboards, which serve as background images for distant scenery, play a crucial role in performance.
   • Holding existing billboards in memory when the horizon remains relatively stable is a smart approach to reduce unnecessary recalculations.
   • The discrepancy between frame rates with and without head movement suggests that billboard creation during head movement impacts performance significantly.
2. Local System Impact:
   • The issue seems localized to certain systems, as not all users experience it.
   • CPU clock rates alone don’t explain the drastic frame rate drop, ruling out CPU performance as the sole culprit.
3. GPU and DCS Update:
   • The GPU could indeed be a factor, but my observation is, that the bug coincided with a DCS update (specifically the new Cola map) is crucial.
   • ORBX’s complex scenery likely triggered the need for a new function in the DCS image generator.
   • ASOBO’s successful resolution of a similar issue in the Microsoft Flight Simulator highlights the importance of addressing this at the software level.
4. Memory Management:
   • Upgrading system memory (RAM) from 32 GB to 64 GB might help, especially if billboards are being swapped to virtual memory.
   • Moving the page file to an SSD can improve swap times, but it won’t fully solve the issue if the bottleneck lies elsewhere.
5. DCS Solution:
   • Ultimately, a solution from DCS would be ideal. Their expertise in flight simulation software development could address this issue comprehensively.

[Flia]

I can confirmed solution : Decreasing mouse refresh rate from 1000 Hz to 500 Hz fixed this problem!

[lovethewayoumove]

En 12/7/2024 a las 15:04, FierceLV dijo:

Hi.

While playing DCS World I constantly getting Frame Time Spikes that manifest themselves in a less-than-one-second freezes, this in turn utterly kills the fun from the simulation experience that DCS World was built for.

I have a gaming PC, I think there is no need to list my mouse and keyboard.

Lowering all video settings doesn't remove the Frame Time Spikes, it only makes them occur less often.

Getting Frame Time Spikes on a gaming PC with DCS World at low settings is not normal, I think... but I might be wrong.

Most popular solution that I found on ED Forums for constant Frame Time Spikes was to kill the essential Windows Power process (?) (which didn't help).

More information on the nature of the notorious Frame Time Spikes:

When do they happen? They happen when you rotate the camera, when you look in a new direction, when new scene and it's objects enter the screen, when the picture on your screen changes, when you make high-G turns.

It is not hardware resource related, because resource monitor shows hardware usage at normal levels, with 80% GPU memory usage being the highest (other resources below 50% without noticeable spikes).

But why do they occur if it is not a hardware related issue? My guess is that the DCS World itself is very poorly optimized.

What is currently happening? You have a poor optimized resource-hungry simulation platform whose developers instead of one time focusing all efforts on complete-propper-optimization of the platform,
add more poorly optimized features ("THIS SOFTWARE CONTAINS NVIDIA SCRIPTING") on top of the current poor state of optimization, and the result is? "15 Years Of DCS World" and "DCS World 2.9 Constant Frame Time Spikes"

Check this out...

"15 Years Of DCS" featuring the "Forest Optimization":

1. Fly fast near tree tops.

2. Notice how all of your GPU resources are allocated to rendering each shadow of each tree (so important, especially when majority of shadows are not in line-of-sight).

3. Notice the lag.

4. Forest detail factor 0.1 ? Okay.

5. Fly over the forest and see how trees magically change their shape when you approach them - happens all the time in the real world.

Trees from Lock On - Modern Air Combat (YES) are better than "15 Years Of DCS Forest", how this came to be? Don't answer.

This leaves one with: "If only we could have the forest from Lock On - Modern Air Combat in DCS World..." - good sign right there.

Why would you let your creation be so poorly optimized and on top of that add more resource demanding features without addressing the base optimization problem of THE GAME?

"I tried to get rid of the Frame Time Spikes, and bought the NVIDIA 4K GTX instead of my NVIDIA 3K GTX, but it didn't help" - I didn't made this up, I have seen a post like this while searching for the solution on the ED Forums...

But maybe Eagle Dynamics have access to some top-secret military personal computer hardware technology that allows them to get constant 60 FPS on a 1920 x 1080 resolution with no Frame Time Spikes, without VR? Maybe they do, but I guess it's too much to ask for ordinary player (the 60 FPS)...

So what would be the solution to the "DCS World 2.9 Constant Frame Time Spikes" without killing the Windows (10)? Any one?

Hi! FierceLV,

Just want to let you know that I have also exactly the same problem and in the same situations that you are experiencing.

I've tried almost everything, and all the possible suggestions, tricks and solutions provided by users, and devs also after beeing talking with ED with an open ticket during a long long time. They are very kind, but no solution at all.

Nothing changed.

We are guilty of having a specific specs PC's, or are our Mods, or are our settings wrongly set or configured.

That's true that if you change and play with your settings, you can manage to improve a little bit, but come on, on a game where a big percentage of people we have spent an important amount of money on the modules, its not possible that we have to spend time and time testing and playing with all the possible fixes that work for many, but not for many others. Neither we should not never have to learn how to play with P/E cores or cores affinity. Should be a plug and play game, otherwise at least let know the big public that they should be prepared about learning and playing with informatic stuff.

But, It's not due to a poor game optimisation. It's always our fault.

Well, they will know I hope so, and they sould be working on a future optimisation I hope so too, otherwise I'm not going to spend even a single more euro in this game. Even do I'm like crazy waiting to a solution in order to be able to buy and try the F4, or the new maps release. But not for now with this poor game optimisation.

So, let's see.

Let me know if you find a better solution.

No improvement for me lowering pooling rate from 1000 to 500. Neither other pooling rates settings.

Safe flights

 

[Nightstalker]

I don’t want to tell people something they may already know but I’ve spent the last 4 days frustrated over stutter, micro stutter frame drops which seem to have come out of nowhere 2 patches ago and increasing with the Afghanistan map patch.

After numerous attempts to fix the problem by removing shaders, running repair, re-installs, setting adjustments etc. I was ready to park the sim until the next patch when I noticed in my Resource Manager that most of my CPU cores were parked.  I know many of you know about this issue and so did I but my Cores were  re-parked.  I can only assume a Win11 update did this a while back which may have coincided with my sudden stutter issues.

After following the very easy to do steps explained in the video of the Core Parking thread under bugs & performance, I un-parked my cores.  As soon as I went back into DCS all of my stutter was gone!  Viewing the DCS fps counter during numerous long flights this morning my 2 lines in the frame counter were completely flatlined for all flights.  NO STUTTER.

I hope I’m not jinxing myself but I’ve tested flight on almost all of my maps now including Afghanistan and everything is back to butter smooth.  Maybe this will help someone as frustrated as I was.  Don’t trust Microsoft to not mess with your settings.

[FierceLV]

Thank you to all for providing valuable information on the issue.

I have done some testing and found some more potentially valuable information.

What follows is a wall-of-text, but it contains a possible solution to the Frame Time Spikes, so "to read or not to read" - it is up to you, the reader.

First of all I need to correct myself regarding the statement that I made where I wrote that the Frame Time Spikes were introduced after the big 2.9 update. I was wrong, I had downgraded the DCS World to the last version of 2.8 update in hopes of getting rid of the annoying Frame Time Spikes only to find that (in my case) they were also there. Based on the many complaints from the community regarding the 2.9 update performance, I can only assume that the performance of the game has somehow degraded and that made those Frame Time Spikes more prominent. Now to be fair, the 2.9 update made a real huge leap in regards of general quality of the scenery picture on the screen.

Now onto the potentially valuable information regarding the notorious Frame Time Spikes:

1. It is important to note again that Frame Time Spikes occur even on lowest visual settings, meaning that they occur regardless of the level of visual settings, they are just in the game itself.

2. Uncapping FPS from 60 has provided very interesting information, It appears that no matter how much FPS do you have the Frame Time Spikes still occur - this means that the game itself (again) is the reason, it is almost as if the engine of the game works that way. And don't go: "but I have 60 constant FPS, bla bla bla butter..." - nonsense, the game just works that way, some have lags, some don't - the game itself is just like that.

3. On higher FPS the Frame Time Spikes are less noticeable, they are barely noticeable approaching 200+ FPS.

4. On contrary to my previous belief that 60 FPS is the best option for the game like DCS World, it turned out that it is not. Flying a jet on high FPS just feels better, so my message to those with the Frame Time Spikes is just to uncap it (the FPS).

5. After some additional testing while writing this post, I can surely conclude that best solution to Frame Time Spikes (in my case (maybe in yours aswell)) is completely uncap the FPS. Sure, FPS will little bit fluctuate while you fly around the forest, but it turns out that the DCS World provides much smoother experience with fluctuating uncapped FPS (trust me on this one and just check it yourself).

6. And to make things even better (yes, I know, totally unbelievable) running DCS World via Multithread executable provides even better flying experience, the MT adds more FPS and the DCS World runs much smoother, as if the MT was designed for the uncapped FPS.

Now here is the guide onto how to uncap the FPS and stop worrying about the Frame Time Spikes.

I have tested the idea of Uncap-FPS-Workaround with the G-SYNC compatible monitor and NVIDIA G-SYNC video card, for those who don't have this stuff, the general idea is clear: you need to uncap the frame rate per second (FPS) - it is up to you to figure this one out. Note that the maximum amount of FPS you can get is dictated by your monitor's maximum Refresh Rate.

The guide to uncap the FPS on an G-SYNC compatible monitor and NVIDIA G-SYNC video card:

1. Go to your Display Settings (right click on desktop).

2. Go to Advanced Display Settings (scroll down and click on it).

3. Choose the required display (your monitor) and at the Refresh Rate section pick the highest available Refresh Rate.

4. Go to NVIDIA Control Panel and make sure you have the following in the "Manage 3D Settings" tab:

    4.1. Max Frame Rate: Off
    4.2. Monitor Technology: G-Sync Compatible
    4.3. Preferred refresh rate: Highest available

Make sure you have "G-SYNC, G-SYNC Compatible" enabled in the "Set Up G-SYNC" tab.

Also make sure that the individual "Max Frame Rate" setting for "Digital Combat Simulator: Black Shark (dcs.exe)" is set to "Off".

Note that standard version of the DCS World and the MT version of the DCS World have the same name ("Digital Combat Simulator: Black Shark (dcs.exe)"). If you manually add one DCS World executable to Program Settings in the NVIDIA Control Panel "Manage 3D Settings" tab, it will replace the other, and vice versa (you can't tell the difference between them by name in the program list).

5. Launch the DCS World, go to OPTIONS/SYSTEM, and make sure that the "Max FPS" setting is set to 300 (uncapped).

6. Load a mission of your choosing, bring up the "Frame rate counter - Service info" window (you can assign a keyboard shortcut at "UI Layer" at OPTIONS\CONTROLS) and start flying.

You can also play with visual settings to gain more performance.

That's about it, I tried to provide as much details as possible. Hopefully this wall-of-text will help someone in search of the solution to the notorious Frame Time Spikes.

Any additional useful information is very appreciated.

Thank you for your attention.

[AnthonyAA]

I'm also having this issue since the latest update. I noticed that it is on certain servers for me. On Growling Sidewinders I have no intermittent spikes and FPS drops, however on other servers, I have consistent drops from 75fps to 44fps. Lowering the mouse polling to 500 and unparking cores doesn't help when I am trying to play on those servers. 

Edited July 17, 2024 by AnthonyAA

[FierceLV]

From latest observations I can conclude that the root cause of the Frame Time Spikes are the modules (jets, helicopters). Being high-fidelity aircraft producing the most Frame Time Spikes. On same settings, legacy aircraft like MiG-29S, Su-27, F-15C producing little to no Frame Time Spikes, while flying those the Frame Time Spikes mostly occur due to the terrain data being loaded into memory (Terrain Preload Radius).

Some more observations totally irrelevant to the topic:

1. Work-In-Progress

2. Early Access

3. "BUY NOW!"

Hopefully someone or something will find the cure.

[rwbishUP]

I'm having the very same issue, @FierceLV. DCS is the only title I have the problem in, my lag spikes are around 6 seconds apart and last about 100ms in SP. I have stopped playing in MP servers, because of the issue. In MP the spikes are around 4 seconds apart and last for nearly a full second. The frequency of the spikes are perfectly spaced, I have tried everything, and nothing works to fix it. I have tried to recreate the issue in my other sim titles but it never happens.

my pc isn't anything special but with the settings I use in DCS, it shouldn't have an issue. I run other titles with much higher graph settings smoothly.

rtx3080

i9-9900k

64gb ddr4

2tb m.2 dedicated to DCS

144hz lg mon

Excuse my "HI TECH" chart. This is a slice for 1 min, the lag spikes coincide perfect with the dips.

 

Edited August 1, 2024 by rwbishUP
add img

[The_Nephilim]

On 7/12/2024 at 9:16 PM, The_Nephilim said:

IDK, a log file could be helpfull, sysspecs. I have no issues with maintaining above 60FPS and I fly in VR. with wehre I have it set I avg above 80FPS and sometimes on 90FPS, I do not get stutter.

 

Hey could you please post your logs and system specs?? Like I said but apparently it does not matter to you I get barley get real bad spikes and if I do usually they are not too bad as to where it ruins gameplay. I play on MP servers. So saying it DCS causing it well if that is the case why am I barely affected??

 

I only say I dont have problems not to insult just maybe somebody will see why I dont and some do.. there has to be a reason. and as you found out it was not 2.9.6 as the older version you say had the small issue so I think maybe something with your PC..

Edited August 1, 2024 by The_Nephilim

[rwbishUP]

I'm experiencing the same problem as the op, and quite a few other ppl. Don't know if it will help, but here is a log file I just generated playing a quick miz with the F-4.

 

dcs.log

[The_Nephilim]

35 minutes ago, rwbishUP said:

I'm experiencing the same problem as the op, and quite a few other ppl. Don't know if it will help, but here is a log file I just generated playing a quick miz with the F-4.

 

dcs.log 570.84 kB · 0 downloads

well if you wouldlike help with your issue maybe post in a seperate thread as not to clog up the OP's thread but initially do you use user made  mods and your settings might be too high.. also try a higher pagefile.. also post your specs and settings in DCS ..

Edited August 1, 2024 by The_Nephilim

[rwbishUP]

Well, I'm sharing it in this thread, because the op and I + 3 or 4 others in this thread are having the same issue. Instead of starting an entire new thread about it, I figured it would benefit everyone with the problem if we discussed it in the same place. And, it may bump it up on the list of important bugs if ED staff sees multiple players discussing a common performance bug.

[The_Nephilim]

5 hours ago, rwbishUP said:

Well, I'm sharing it in this thread, because the op and I + 3 or 4 others in this thread are having the same issue. Instead of starting an entire new thread about it, I figured it would benefit everyone with the problem if we discussed it in the same place. And, it may bump it up on the list of important bugs if ED staff sees multiple players discussing a common performance bug.

Well it was just a friendly suggestion and I did give you an answer maybe try what I suggested.   

[_UnknownCheater_]

replace ur god damn high reporting rates mouse.DCS dislike it.

Edited August 3, 2024 by _UnknownCheater_

[Wingnuts]

Small improvement with todays patch, yet still have some major spikes in MP.

[Eian]

I've had this issue as well and have had no luck with the above suggestions..
To be more precise, I was experiencing a lot of micro stutters after being in the game for a while..

What seems to have alleviated the issue for me is to disable full screen GPU driver mode!!
Note that g-sync is working fine even if set to run on fullscreen only..

I will be testing this further since I've only tried it for about an hour, but it would help reach a conclusion if others can test this as well..

My specs: 14700KF, Asus 4070 TUF, 32GB DDR5, and a 180Hz G-SYNC 2K monitor."
 

I also tried backing up the configs folder bellow and reinstalling..
Before doing so make sure you export the controls in game and taking note of your graphics settings..

Rename the configs folder bellow to keep old settings just in case and reinstall..
C:\Users\<USERNAME>\Saved Games\DCS

..\DCS\Config | Holds most config including game options, servers, passwords and more..
..\DCS\Config\Input | Contains in-game control settings..
..\DCS\InputUserProfiles | Contains your saved control profiles..

Other folders are self explanatory..

This is what made the biggest difference for me but disabling fullscreen also helped as well..

Had a few spikes today as well in MP but not in the same occurrence rate..

Edited February 11 by Eian

[Eroxz564]

This has been a problem for a very long time, and it never gets sorted