Su-25T training mission #4 Beslan RWY reversed, mission too long

[virgo47]

I tested the training #4 Landing - Difficult (IFR) and I was immediately surprised I have to fly so far away. I believe, previously the RWY 10 was used for landing - which is the shorter way. This is corroborated by the voiceover that mentions markers (available only for RWY 10) and wind from south to north and banking right - which would indicate the approach from the west.

But now the mission leads me around as the Return point is for the RWY 28.

The funny thing is that the instructions about the left rudder and right bank still apply because it seems someone found the problem and reversed the wind (which still means some of the voiceover is incorrect). But this still makes this training mission unnecessarily long/boring - or frustrating when it needs to be repeated.

(It feels easier now than in 2022 though, but I believe it's reasonable difficulty.)

[CTB]

I played this and found it very strange.  Difficult but seems to be more difficult than it needs to be.

First of all you can't even see the runway until you are right on top of it! And need your own lights on to see it at all.

Also the HSI is so faint you can hardly see the indicators, I have had to pause and zoom in to check.  The waypoints seem to change suddenly on approach, you are reasonably lined up and then suddenly the required altitude changes or on final the direction and altitude changes.  Appreciate there is no ILS but trying to intercept the localiser when you cant fully see the instruments and can't trust the instruments you can see and no visual makes a hard challenge almost impossible.

 

I did this first time on autopilot as I thought this is what was required (I think I forgot to press space so mission instructions got stuck) and it landed fine, cant remember which runway though, i thought 10.  Have recently tried it a few times each time trying to follow the instruments and it they take you off course, usually to the left of the runway and high.  So I just follow the approach until I can see the airport light sand aim for the edge of the blue lights as thats where the runway should be and roughly have heading 100 for runway 10.  Then crabbing into the wind anyway and just managed it.

Seems a bit unrealistic as at night the runway would be lit up and/or you would fly instruments in bad weather - although visibility is not really the issue in this scenario as its fine below a certain height.

[virgo47]

7 hours ago, CTB said:

First of all you can't even see the runway until you are right on top of it! And need your own lights on to see it at all.

Also the HSI is so faint you can hardly see the indicators, I have had to pause and zoom in to check.

If you want to see the runway, contact the ATC (\, F5, F1, F1) - they will confirm it and put the lights on.

For HSI and other instruments, there is Illumination Cockpit shortcut, not sure what its default is, but with it, it is visible just fine. If you need to zoom, consider using one of the snap views to momentarily look at it.

That said, the mission is still buggy:

Start on the map:

It is clear the mission was designed (and narrated) to lead the pilot over the markers.

Please, fix the wind to the inverted direction, so we can use RWY 10 again. @Flappie sorry to bother you, I just can't think of anyone else.

[Flappie]

4 hours ago, virgo47 said:

Please, fix the wind to the inverted direction, so we can use RWY 10 again. @Flappie sorry to bother you, I just can't think of anyone else.

No worries, I'm OK with pings. I'll check and report back.

[CTB]

11 hours ago, virgo47 said:

If you want to see the runway, contact the ATC (\, F5, F1, F1) - they will confirm it and put the lights on.

For HSI and other instruments, there is Illumination Cockpit shortcut, not sure what its default is, but with it, it is visible just fine. If you need to zoom, consider using one of the snap views to momentarily look at it.

That said, the mission is still buggy:

Start on the map:

It is clear the mission was designed (and narrated) to lead the pilot over the markers.

Please, fix the wind to the inverted direction, so we can use RWY 10 again. @Flappie sorry to bother you, I just can't think of anyone else.

Thanks!

I haven't tried ATC or comms yet.  Will try that.

 

I had seen illuminate cockpit, but assumed it was alternative for panel lights.  Will try that.  Might map it to panel lts button on hotas with a modifier.

 

I don't mind it being bugged, at least a little bit, but only if I can see the runway!

 

I landed at runway 10, but that might explain why instruments veering off course if its wanting runway 28. At least if its looking to fly pattern but I thought it was straight in (or back course if runway now swapped).

If the guy you tagged is a dev, perhaps he can shed some light (fnaar fnaar).

[virgo47]

36 minutes ago, CTB said:

I haven't tried ATC or comms yet.  Will try that.

I don't want to sound harsh, but I'm pretty sure many of these things are mentioned in the Su-25T tutorials - and the manual is also not that long. Even if it feels overwhelming, it's not - compared to other so-called "full fidelity planes".

Su-25T is very similar (in controls) to so-called FC (Flamig Cliffs, or FC3, newly FC2024) "low-fidelity" planes which are really fun to fly with and RELATIVELY easy to control. If you learn a few tricks in one, it will be very similar in the other planes as well. But - not to hijack my own thread. I've noticed a few threads of yours that are very basic and I believe a bit of search would do the trick. No hard feelings. DCS can be overwhelming, I remember myself.

The guy I tagged is not a dev, but helps with testing/bug reports... I'd say we have a bit of history (I hope a good one ;-)), but I can tell you for sure, the mission WAS designed for RWY 10 for sure. I know, I remember.

Edited April 1 by virgo47

[draconus]

@CTB you really should mention that you're using DCS 2.5.6 as many parts of the sim, maps, modules or missions may behave and look quite differently now.

[CTB]

15 hours ago, virgo47 said:

I don't want to sound harsh, but I'm pretty sure many of these things are mentioned in the Su-25T tutorials - and the manual is also not that long. Even if it feels overwhelming, it's not - compared to other so-called "full fidelity planes".

Su-25T is very similar (in controls) to so-called FC (Flamig Cliffs, or FC3, newly FC2024) "low-fidelity" planes which are really fun to fly with and RELATIVELY easy to control. If you learn a few tricks in one, it will be very similar in the other planes as well. But - not to hijack my own thread. I've noticed a few threads of yours that are very basic and I believe a bit of search would do the trick. No hard feelings. DCS can be overwhelming, I remember myself.

The guy I tagged is not a dev, but helps with testing/bug reports... I'd say we have a bit of history (I hope a good one ;-)), but I can tell you for sure, the mission WAS designed for RWY 10 for sure. I know, I remember.

no hard feelings etc taken, I've done all the tutorials and have read the manual.  Nothing mentioned about comms yet.  I had seen a binding in the keymaps but had no application for it yet.

I don't find the aircraft or DCS overwhelming.  Just a lack of info I guess and the training missions are lacking or bugged.

I tend to prefer to discuss and see what other people's experiences are rather than search and obviously I have searched to some extent before posting.  I have limited time to play/search also.  Might seem basic, but its because I've looked and there is no answer that I've found.  eg the post about flaming cliffs or older aircraft, I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction, similar to obtaining DCS 2.5.6, the link was there but not easily findable.

 

1 hour ago, draconus said:

@CTB you really should mention that you're using DCS 2.5.6 as many parts of the sim, maps, modules or missions may behave and look quite differently now.

Yes I thought I had, perhaps mentioned in other posts or on signature - which is not showing yet.

And had meant to mention that at bit between discussing rwy 10/28 as I suspected it would be different between the versions.

Edited April 2 by CTB

[draconus]

11 minutes ago, CTB said:

Might seem basic, but its because I've looked and there is no answer that I've found.  eg the post about flaming cliffs or older aircraft, I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction, similar to obtaining DCS 2.5.6, the link was there but not easily findable.

Feel free to ask any questions but it's best to make new thread unless you have the same problem as in some existing thread.

Subforum for Su-25T:

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/818-su-25t-free-with-dcs-world/

Subforum for Flaming Cliffs aircraft:

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/102-dcs-flaming-cliffs/

Payment & activation related:

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/54-payment-and-activation/

General issues:

https://forum.dcs.world/forum/474-general-bugs/

[CTB]

On 4/1/2025 at 8:10 AM, virgo47 said:

If you want to see the runway, contact the ATC (\, F5, F1, F1) - they will confirm it and put the lights on.

For HSI and other instruments, there is Illumination Cockpit shortcut, not sure what its default is, but with it, it is visible just fine. If you need to zoom, consider using one of the snap views to momentarily look at it.

That said, the mission is still buggy:

Start on the map:

 

just tried it with the comms menu and the runway was lit up well, makes a huge difference!!

Also confirmed the mission is looking for rwy hdg 10 in my version of DCS. 

Cockpit illumination = panel lts, already had those on. Saw there was an issue with the HSI on another post but may not have been resolved yet in v2.5.6.

[MAXsenna]

@CTB If you get 90-120 FPS on 2.5.6, you might get 60 on the newest version, which should be decent enough. Have you tried?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[CTB]

On 4/2/2025 at 2:24 PM, MAXsenna said:

@CTB If you get 90-120 FPS on 2.5.6, you might get 60 on the newest version, which should be decent enough. Have you tried?

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk
 

new version doesn't support windows 7.

[MAXsenna]

new version doesn't support windows 7.

Aha! Missed that detail.

Sent from my SM-A536B using Tapatalk

[draconus]

I flew the mission and if you follow ATC it works fine to fly to the fixed point and then turn back onto RWY 28 but I agree with points presented by OP. They clearly have done something to the mission where you start farther away and fly longer with the hard turn back and some voice overs and messages are now wrong.

[virgo47]

16 hours ago, draconus said:

I flew the mission and if you follow ATC it works fine to fly to the fixed point and then turn back onto RWY 28 but I agree with points presented by OP. They clearly have done something to the mission where you start farther away and fly longer with the hard turn back and some voice overs and messages are now wrong.

It's just reversed RWY and wind, it really is that simple. Not sure why someone turned the wind around, because besides flying much longer you also don't overfly the markers mentioned in the voiceover.

I changed the wind to this, and the mission is much better - close to the original one (EDITED, at first I left the wind north-to-south, now fixed so it matches the voiceover):

Edited April 7 by virgo47