fixed Huge SP performance degradation with 2.9.7.58923 and 2.9.6.58056 compared to DCS 2.9.5.55918

[SharpeXB]

19 minutes ago, av8orDave said:

You're running a top of the line system that most playing the game don't have. Additionally, you don't appear to be running VR. Throw VR into the equation and your tune will probably change, even with your system.

Again, I run a Ryzen 9 7950X, 4090, and 64 DDR5, and DCS in VR with any reasonable number of units can bring my system to a crawl. Running on a monitor, few if any issues whatsoever.

I've posted my specs, logs, etc ad-nauseum over the years. I actually don't believe they are that helpful, to be honest. 

 

The OP has a 4090, 7800x3D and 64GB RAM that’s pretty much the same thing I have and by all accounts the x3D CPUs are very good. How is it that he’s only getting 26FPS on a monitor? That’s not even a demanding mission as far as I can tell. Something’s not right for sure. Just saying the time I saw a performance drop on my machine like that it was because my CPU was fried.

VR is another story. The game wasn’t really made for VR and the higher graphic settings are intended for 2D. You need to run VR at like 1/3rd the settings that you would on a monitor. That’s just a fact of life there.

Without hard data there’s no chance ED will be able to do anything about this so everyone needs to stick to that. Just posting “my game runs bad” isn’t useful at all. 
And I’m not saying mine always runs perfectly but the times it hasn’t weren’t anything to do with the game. Something on my end was wrong. 

Edited September 4, 2024 by SharpeXB

[diego999]

1 hour ago, Rene Coulon said:

Can someone please post a step for step procedure on exactly how to go back to 2.9.5.55981  I have looked at previous threads on this and they just dont work or make sence to me

Pretend I am almost PC illiterate, just so I dont create more carnage.

The short video, shows how at around the same time in a mission, the stuttering and FPS has increased . Prior to the last 2 upgrades at this point in the mission I would get tiny spikes and stutters, and an almost steady 100 to 110 FPS.

What does restore the FPS and reduce the stutters, is the Time frame...1/2 is much better, 1/4 is good, and 1/8th is perfect.

Something new has hurt my systems ability to cope with the load of DCS, and also Chaps with more updated CPUs and GPUs, so the drop is not Rig specific.

Thanx

 

I'm not at home so I can't provide links, but you can use Skatezillas's Updater Tool.

Point it to your main and saved games DCS folders.

On the top "Advanced Updater Options" tab, or something like that.

On the left there's a button "Update to a specific version".

Put there the branch and version you want. In your case RELEASE and 2.9.5.55981 (on the right there's a link to a forum post with all supported old versions).

Press button.

Enjoy.

[buceador]

58 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

You’re hilarious.

It was quite funny!  @SharpeXB with your high end rig you might be somewhat immune to the current plethora of performance related problems being reported here but there are also some with equally high end rigs that are experiencing stutters and general drop in frame rates in missions where previously there were no problems. 

Edited September 4, 2024 by buceador

[Rene Coulon]

26 minutes ago, diego999 said:

 

I'm not at home so I can't provide links, but you can use Skatezillas's Updater Tool.

Point it to your main and saved games DCS folders.

On the top "Advanced Updater Options" tab, or something like that.

On the left there's a button "Update to a specific version".

Put there the branch and version you want. In your case RELEASE and 2.9.5.55981 (on the right there's a link to a forum post with all supported old versions).

Press button.

Enjoy.

Trying to use it...puzzling, lolol

[tmz]

1 hour ago, SharpeXB said:

The OP has a 4090, 7800x3D and 64GB RAM that’s pretty much the same thing I have and by all accounts the x3D CPUs are very good. How is it that he’s only getting 26FPS on a monitor? That’s not even a demanding mission as far as I can tell. Something’s not right for sure. Just saying the time I saw a performance drop on my machine like that it was because my CPU was fried.

VR is another story. The game wasn’t really made for VR and the higher graphic settings are intended for 2D. You need to run VR at like 1/3rd the settings that you would on a monitor. That’s just a fact of life there.

Without hard data there’s no chance ED will be able to do anything about this so everyone needs to stick to that. Just posting “my game runs bad” isn’t useful at all. 
And I’m not saying mine always runs perfectly but the times it hasn’t weren’t anything to do with the game. Something on my end was wrong. 

 

That IS the whole point of this thread! And we are many to experience it. Everyone understood that you are not impacted, please try not to derail the thread for those of us who are.

If ED needs hard data, we will definitely provide it, I imagine most of us will be happy to spend time troubleshooting this. With ED.

1 hour ago, Rene Coulon said:

Trying to use it...puzzling, lolol

Using the terminal it is pretty easy : open a terminal, and go to the bin folder of your DCS Home followed by 'Enter', see below for my system.

cd 'D:\DCS World\bin\'

From there, input the following :

.\DCS_updater.exe update 2.9.5.55918

DCS should now downgrade.

Edited September 4, 2024 by tmz

[Moezilla]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

It’s just an empty deck of the Supercarrier.

There's a scud bombardment of Khasab going on and a lot of aircraft starting up and taxiing.

Also @Pillowcat just confirming I'm seeing the same thing with the handles during a run of Scenic-bench.miz (5800X3D/32GB RAM/6750XT/Win11 23H2)

Edited September 4, 2024 by Moezilla

[SharpeXB]

58 minutes ago, tmz said:

That IS the whole point of this thread! And we are many to experience it. Everyone understood that you are not impacted, please try not to derail the thread for those of us who are.

It’s not my intention to derail the thread, just pointing out that it’s possible to run the game well. It’s great that you posted a track for others to try out and those are the results I get when running it. That sort of testing will help arrive at a solution. 

39 minutes ago, Moezilla said:

There's a scud bombardment of Khasab going on and a lot of aircraft starting up and taxiing.

Well that’s good to know, for me it seemed like an easy empty ocean. FWIW a heavy mission for me might be the Apache Cairo free flight or Hornet Syria Airbase Defense Instant Action. Posting tracks like that is a good idea though. 

Edited September 4, 2024 by SharpeXB

[RedeyeStorm]

22 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Obviously the game has to balance its ability to run many units with all the other features players want. You can’t have everything. I’m sure the game could have 10,000 units in it if it looked like something from 2004 but that’s not what most people want. In the end it is a hardware limitation that you’re up against.

Judging by the results in my previous post I think there are some hardware/ system problems involved here too. 

 

Please read the post of @A Hamburgler and not only your own words.

[SharpeXB]

26 minutes ago, RedeyeStorm said:

Please read the post of @A Hamburgler and not only your own words.

Yes I did read his post. What’s your point?

[Darcaem]

Please, do not de-rail this

We all understand your point of view, the sim runs fine for you. Lets all agree we are happy for you and stop the discussion ^^ And for the rest of us, we have made our point of view clear, there are in fact problems that are been worked on. There is no need to convince people who disagree with us, we only need to make ED aware (which they are) and if we find anything worth sharing to clarify the issues even more, share it.

[Pande4360]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb SharpeXB:

A real bombing mission in WWII might have 400 bombers, 300 escorts and 400 enemy fighters. A ground battle had several infantry and armored divisions of 14,000-15,000 troops on each side.
So we’re still not even close. Why worry? DCS can do missions with enough units to make them believable and interesting. 

Fact is the performance heavily decreased. I understand that new features require more performance. but the new features require an unreasonable amount of CPU as it stands and im sure such things can and should be improved by ED.
Again we´re talking about laggy 30v30 servers vs 100vs100+ which ran fine before. These are PURE CPU issues and have nothing to do with gpu.
Tested on a 5800x3d.

Nobody here´complains about the game not being able to run a basic scenario. This is simply a thread about heavy increase in CPU usage that seems unreasonable compared to before when playing more heavy scenarios.

Sure the Dynamic campaign "bubble" as you exepct can come at some point. but that may still be idk 2 years in the future. If you have fun playing 20v20 scenarios that´s fine for you then. But for many it simply is a let down. I dont see why you would even remotely try to argue this

I dont think it´s reasonable to wait till then and further performance updates outside of that should be at least looked into (which they are doing).

Edited September 4, 2024 by Pande4360

[SharpeXB]

45 minutes ago, Pande4360 said:

Fact is the performance heavily decreased.

That doesn’t seem to be all due to the game. One CPU might be at the most 20-30% faster but does that explain a difference of 26 vs 120FPS? But if there are performance optimizations being looked at, so much the better.

[tmz]

9 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

That doesn’t seem to be all due to the game.

How can it not? On the same machine, sequentially, same mission, same settings, same SSD, 2.9.6+ doesn't work, 2.9.5 does.

That is, again, the whole point of this thread.

 

[SharpeXB]

4 minutes ago, tmz said:

How can it not? On the same machine, sequentially, same mission, same settings, same SSD, 2.9.6+ doesn't work, 2.9.5 does.

That is, again, the whole point of this thread.

 

When I saw a drop like that myself it was my CPU failing. Have you tested your hardware on other games or benchmarks? 

[Pande4360]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb SharpeXB:

That doesn’t seem to be all due to the game. One CPU might be at the most 20-30% faster but does that explain a difference of 26 vs 120FPS? But if there are performance optimizations being looked at, so much the better.

yes it is due to the game what else would it be? The game currently cant handle more heavy missions. that´s all there is to it. Probabaly due to the new AI features.
Ai overloads one cpu core, game starts to stutter, fps sinks drastically. This also happens on pure server installs. So no GPU even involved.

vor einer Stunde schrieb SharpeXB:

When I saw a drop like that myself it was my CPU failing. Have you tested your hardware on other games or benchmarks? 

Failing what sense? what are you looking for here? the CPU cores are at 100 and temps are fine.
I mean yes the CPU cant handle it. But the point is the game demands much more CPU with the latest updates. Which seems unproportional to the stuff that was added.

My tests have shown that this issue happens in VR, in non VR, as well as on dedicated servers(server side). Idk what the others did maybe they have way too high settings sure which can add to the whole issue. But I have tested this without any GPU demands. And normal missions run fine for me on all platforms, that´s not the issue here for me.
Friend of mine with 5800x3d and 4090 tried the same missions with the same results

You want a test mission?

Edited September 4, 2024 by Pande4360

[SharpeXB]

20 minutes ago, Pande4360 said:

yes it is due to the game what else would it be?

Take your pick. In my case it was my CPU going kaput. I’ve had two of those fail over the years. This year I’ve also fried the power cable on the 4090 and had a continual CDT problem due to an out of date MB BIOS. 

24 minutes ago, Pande4360 said:

Failing what sense?

Mine was an overclocked 13900K so it was likely due to that Raptor Lake degradation problem. My frames dropped into the single digits. The problem was evident in other games and benchmarks. Checking those would tell you whether it’s DCS to blame or not. 

[Pande4360]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb SharpeXB:

Take your pick. In my case it was my CPU going kaput. I’ve had two of those fail over the years. This year I’ve also fried the power cable on the 4090 and had a continual CDT problem due to an out of date MB BIOS. 

Mine was an overclocked 13900K so it was likely due to that Raptor Lake degradation problem. My frames dropped into the single digits. The problem was evident in other games and benchmarks. Checking those would tell you whether it’s DCS to blame or not. 

Again temps are fine, cpu is fine, testd on 2 machines.

Edited September 4, 2024 by Pande4360

[SharpeXB]

28 minutes ago, Pande4360 said:

Probabaly due to the new AI features.

Multicore giveth and ED taketh away

1 minute ago, Pande4360 said:

Again temps are fine, cpu is fine, testd on 2 machines

How does it check out on benchmarks and other games?

[Pande4360]

vor 1 Minute schrieb SharpeXB:

Multicore giveth and ED taketh away

We could even run a server alongside our main game on same pc, the result would be that the server is handling the ai tasks and causes desync and rubberbanding. Our clients ran perfeclty finne with full fps. So it hardly can be the cpu failing.

vor 2 Minuten schrieb SharpeXB:

Multicore giveth and ED taketh away

How does it check out on benchmarks and other games?

i can easily run a 2nd game alongside dcs and it would be fine

Edited September 4, 2024 by Pande4360

[Rene Coulon]

8 hours ago, tmz said:

That IS the whole point of this thread! And we are many to experience it. Everyone understood that you are not impacted, please try not to derail the thread for those of us who are.

If ED needs hard data, we will definitely provide it, I imagine most of us will be happy to spend time troubleshooting this. With ED.

Using the terminal it is pretty easy : open a terminal, and go to the bin folder of your DCS Home followed by 'Enter', see below for my system.

cd 'D:\DCS World\bin\'

From there, input the following :

.\DCS_updater.exe update 2.9.5.55918

DCS should now downgrade.

 

Thanx a lot for the details.

 

For me I keep getting the Notification that the version is Not Available...consider updating

I also tried SZS DCS Updater, with the same results, version is not available.

[Archangel44]

3 hours ago, Rene Coulon said:

Thanx a lot for the details.

 

For me I keep getting the Notification that the version is Not Available...consider updating

I also tried SZS DCS Updater, with the same results, version is not available.

That sucks.

I’ve tried all kinds of settings and changes that fellow pilots and even the mods have suggested and nothing has changed. Freezes, stutters while even lowering settings creates the same issues that others are reporting.

ED, please get squared away and fix this and…. Make it so it doesn’t happen anymore.

Thank You,

 

ED, see my signature to see how many dollars I’ve given to you to create and maintain a viable Sim that I want to invest in.

Edited September 5, 2024 by Archangel44

[AVPIN]

14 hours ago, Pillowcat said:

2.9.6, MT, W10, Ryzen 5900x 64G ram 4060ti 16Gb, tacview off, no mods, no VR, 'CPU Bound':

  Reveal hidden contents

 

null

 

~75k of sync handlers is a bit hilarious imo. Next in frame time consuming to timers interthread mess are follows something about calculations with roads and terrain, but its not precise currently, maybe some misnamed anonymous functions in same module memory batch.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

It appears every ground unit and airplane spawned in uses exactly 128 handles. That seems a lot to me. 128 = 2^7, recursive loop somewhere?

Edited September 5, 2024 by AVPIN

[tmz]

5 hours ago, Rene Coulon said:

Thanx a lot for the details.

 

For me I keep getting the Notification that the version is Not Available...consider updating

I also tried SZS DCS Updater, with the same results, version is not available.

Hmmm... just tried it, worked for me... Were you on OpenBeta originally? Could you try the same but appending @release?

.\DCS_updater.exe update 2.9.5.55918@release

[fjacobsen]

16 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

The OP has a 4090, 7800x3D and 64GB RAM that’s pretty much the same thing I have and by all accounts the x3D CPUs are very good. How is it that he’s only getting 26FPS on a monitor? That’s not even a demanding mission as far as I can tell. Something’s not right for sure. Just saying the time I saw a performance drop on my machine like that it was because my CPU was fried.

VR is another story. The game wasn’t really made for VR and the higher graphic settings are intended for 2D. You need to run VR at like 1/3rd the settings that you would on a monitor. That’s just a fact of life there.

Without hard data there’s no chance ED will be able to do anything about this so everyone needs to stick to that. Just posting “my game runs bad” isn’t useful at all. 
And I’m not saying mine always runs perfectly but the times it hasn’t weren’t anything to do with the game. Something on my end was wrong. 

 

The question here is not whether DCS was mad for VR or not or how DCS in general should run.

The problem for those posting here, is that after the last few patches, performance has dropped quite a lot.

So on the same systems that could run DCS very fine some patch cycles before what we have bow, both complex mission with many objects and in VR, are now unable to run it satisfactury.

[buceador]

11 hours ago, tmz said:

How can it not? On the same machine, sequentially, same mission, same settings, same SSD, 2.9.6+ doesn't work, 2.9.5 does.

This!