Correct Trim button commands and how to actually operate them in flight?

[RossC]

Hi all,

I'm having some difficulty, like a few others, trying to manage the trim function in flight and I am now quite confused as to how the whole process should actually be operated.

Hover and take off seem to be ok, I just get into any level stable flight and find that the yaw is an a issue and seems to get stuck where it is when i trim. I find I'm crabbing in manoeuvres way to much rather than turning.

I use an X52 Pro and Thrustmaster pedals.

Firstly, trimmer mode:
What option should I be using?

1. Default or

2. Central Position Trimmer mode

 

As for trim.

I have System Sel set to both.

 

I tried binding CD Rel Button but this did not appear to do anything. Does CD Rel button work for others?

So, I have Trim Control and Trimmer Reset binded to buttons on my cyclic.

 

What is the actually process for flying and using these commands?

I lift off and hover with Trim control held.

Once I transition into forward flight i release it and fly away.

This is where it all goes wrong.
 

Should I be manoeuvring with Trim control depressed or should I manoeuvre without it depressed?
Physically, how are others operating Trim Control?

 

When should Trimmer reset be used? 

I find the Trim control gets away from me at times and then i have to press Trimmer reset to centre it, but then that starts making the aircraft pitch up and back.

 

I hope this makes some sort of sense. 

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Yurgon]

7 hours ago, RossC said:

Firstly, trimmer mode:
What option should I be using?

1. Default or

2. Central Position Trimmer mode

As far as I can tell, the module currently always uses the default trim mode, and ignores the "Central Position Trimmer mode". For now, this selection doesn't do anything.

7 hours ago, RossC said:

I tried binding CD Rel Button but this did not appear to do anything. Does CD Rel button work for others?

So, I have Trim Control and Trimmer Reset binded to buttons on my cyclic.

CD REL is currently non-functional, and neither do the 4 directions of the "beep trim" do anything (the 4 way hat next to CD REL).

Trim Control is correct for now.

Regarding Trimmer Reset, I know many DCS players use it when their trim goes foobar. Just be aware that this does not exist in the real aircraft. You have the pitch position indicator on the front dash that will always show you the fore and aft position of the cyclic to help you neutralize the stick (at least in pitch).

7 hours ago, RossC said:

Should I be manoeuvring with Trim control depressed or should I manoeuvre without it depressed?

This is pretty much up to you, and there are different schools of thought.

As far as I'm aware, Russian doctrine is to input small stick deflections, then quickly push and release the trim button, whereas western doctrine is to push the trim button, hold it depressed, deflect the stick, and finally release the trim button when the aircraft is doing the desired thing.

However, I've also learned that helicopter pilots will usually NOT trim into a turn, and instead hold the stick in place during a turn. If something was to happen to them and they let go of the stick, the helicopter will then roll out of the turn and fly level. It's kind of a safeguard for special circumstances, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear from pilots who say this actually saved their life. In DCS, though, I trim into turns all the time because I'm lazy and worst case I might lose a virtual life.

7 hours ago, RossC said:

Physically, how are others operating Trim Control?

So and so. Sometimes I work with incremental trim clicks: deflect stick, push and release trim, center my stick (like you, I do not have a Force Feedback stick), rinse and repeat until I'm happy with the helicopter's attitude. Sometimes I push and hold the trim button, maneuver the helicopter and then let go of the trimmer.

I don't like rudder trim. Unfortunately, the CH-47F came into Early Access with no way to decouple the rudder from trim, so whenever you release the trimmer, be sure to center the pedals right away.

7 hours ago, RossC said:

When should Trimmer reset be used? 

As far as I'm concerned, never. I haven't even mapped it in any helicopter module and I never, ever use it. But I know of many DCS players who come up with all sorts of scenarios where they say they need it. I guess if your trim goes completely bananas, maybe try trim reset, and be prepared for weird things.

Basically, try to understand what trim does and how it works in DCS. Right now in the Chinook, as soon as you release the trim button, your current cyclic pitch, cyclic roll and pedal positions are accepted as the new center position: if you center your physical stick and pedals, DCS will have the virtual controls in the place where they were when you released the trim button. BUT: the instant when you release trim, your physical controls probably aren't centered (why would you trim when they are? ), so you get a "trim bump" where your inputs get doubled. So always immediately center your controls the instant you let go of the trim button.

That's where Central Position Trimmer mode comes into play (when it's implemented, and I'm pretty sure right now it's not): When Central Position Trimmer mode is selected, when you release the trim button, your entire stick (and pedal) input gets 100% ignored, until you've centered it. This is pretty cool, because it entirely removes the trim bump. It's also horrible, because if you fail to center your hardware, you're locked out of the controls. 

Some DCS helicopters have additional options, for example the Ka-50 has a trim mode where stick inputs get ignored for a fraction of a second after trimming, so if you're quick to center your controls, there's no trim bump, but you definitely won't get locked out of the controls. Polychop offer an additional smoothing or averaging option (can't remember what it's called exactly) and that works really well IMO.

So in the future, I'm sure we'll see additional trim options in the Chinook.

For now and with the default mode being the only one that works, just figure out which method works best for you, and remember to always center the stick and the pedals immediately after releasing the trim button.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I hope this help a little.

[RossC]

Ace response, thank you.
Just done a short flight and I think im getting the hang of it now.

 

Switched back to Default.

Set my trim as Trim Control and only using trim control when pretty much trying to fly level rather than in the turn.
Seems to work so much better.
I think I was over using trim control when pedals deflected quite a lot in the turn which was causing some strange behaviours.

Thanks, appreciate it. 

 

[ChrisUK27]

On 8/14/2024 at 7:23 PM, RossC said:

Ace response, thank you.
Just done a short flight and I think im getting the hang of it now.

 

Switched back to Default.

Set my trim as Trim Control and only using trim control when pretty much trying to fly level rather than in the turn.
Seems to work so much better.
I think I was over using trim control when pedals deflected quite a lot in the turn which was causing some strange behaviours.

Thanks, appreciate it. 

 

Something else that may help you from the manual: "Another means to observe this simulated trimming procedure is to display the Controls Indicator overlay while in game by pressing [RCtrl + Enter]."