Limit neck-turning abilities under G-load when G-effects is enabled.

[tribbin]

So players are currently able to check their six under these conditions:



I know this is a game, but 'G-effects' option should include limiting the abilities that will literally break your neck in reality.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14736136/

Edited October 13, 2024 by tribbin

[SharpeXB]

Interfering with head movement in VR would make players sick

[tribbin]

Just now, SharpeXB said:

Interfering with head movement in VR would make players sick

I'm familiar with that from IL-2 that limits movement within the canopy.

Yet giving audio/visual 'pain' feedback urging the player to stay within realistic abilities and masking the view outside the realistic field of view would make for more simulator-like dogfighting situations.

[SharpeXB]

No doubt flying a fighter jet is physically demanding but some things like wear and tear on your body can’t really be simulated

 

[tribbin]

28 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

No doubt flying a fighter jet is physically demanding but some things like wear and tear on your body can’t really be simulated

 

I'm more talking about this:

Instead of blacking out as tunnel-vision, also black out the parts that you would not be able to see.

[SharpeXB]

As long as it affects the AI too

[=475FG= Dawger]

9G is only spiked for a few seconds. The highest sustained G is only going to be 7-7.5 and only a few aircraft can do that. 
 

Ill considered pilot physiology modeling is the single reason my group does not fly a well known title. 
 

Many people fly DCS using snap views and no head tracking. 
 
Not a good idea. 

[SharpeXB]

Is G Warming a thing in DCS or no? I think it was planned 

[Tippis]

16 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Is G Warming a thing in DCS or no? I think it was planned 

Already in.

Oh, and g-induced pilot movement is also already in.

Edited October 10, 2024 by Tippis

[tribbin]

1 hour ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

Many people fly DCS using snap views and no head tracking. 

Yeah, you can easily tell by people's situational awareness if they are snapping (unless they have GCI).

But there is nothing like the experience of dog fighting with VR and I will never want it any other way.

[=475FG= Dawger]

2 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

Is G Warming a thing in DCS or no? I think it was planned 

Greatly misunderstood.

IRL, it doesn't increase your G tolerance. It is solely to check your fitness for high G.

[ShuRugal]

2 hours ago, tribbin said:

Yeah, you can easily tell by people's situational awareness if they are snapping (unless they have GCI).

But there is nothing like the experience of dog fighting with VR and I will never want it any other way.

Honestly, i think that TrackIR's ability to let the pilot's head turn 180 degrees or greater is more of a realism issue than VR head tracking is.

It's pretty difficult to turn your real head to a dangerous position, which limits the unrealism of VR head tracking.  the way Track IR lets you turn your head 180 degrees without moving your shoulders is way more of an issue.

 

I think that giving some sort of visual "you are killing the pilot" feedback when turning to look behind your 3/9 line while loaded up past 4-5 Gs would be something most VR players would never even notice.

[SharpeXB]

25 minutes ago, ShuRugal said:

It's pretty difficult to turn your real head to a dangerous position, which limits the unrealism of VR head tracking.  the way Track IR lets you turn your head 180 degrees without moving your shoulders is way more of an issue.

Watch the video above. It’s like a myth in flight simulation that pilots can’t see their 6:00. DCS actually has quite a realistic modeling of the head and shoulder movement now instead of the owl neck it used to have. 
Also this. Why do you think the 109 had an armored glass headrest? 

 

[tribbin]

33 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

Watch the video above. It’s like a myth in flight simulation that pilots can’t see their 6:00.

It is specifically about turning your head while under heavy G-load.

https://chatgpt.com/share/67082a44-7aa4-8002-a605-d2d71c6df01d

Edited October 10, 2024 by tribbin

[SharpeXB]

14 minutes ago, tribbin said:

It is specifically about turning your head while under heavy G-load.

I get that part. Just responding to the idea that turning to see your 6:00 is unrealistic. Also your ChatGPT link there says “impossible… without significant effort” Key point there, you can see the effort exerted in those videos. There’s no good way for a PC game to simulate that.

Funny, ChatGPT thinks a HUD is used to help the pilot look around

Edited October 10, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Gunfreak]

6 hours ago, =475FG= Dawger said:

9G is only spiked for a few seconds. The highest sustained G is only going to be 7-7.5 and only a few aircraft can do that. 
 

Ill considered pilot physiology modeling is the single reason my group does not fly a well known title. 
 

Many people fly DCS using snap views and no head tracking. 
 
Not a good idea. 

If the pilot of an F16 keeps the aircraft under control, the aircraft can hold 9g until the pilot passes out(about 30 seconds on a good day) or it runs out of fuel. Whichever comes first.

[tribbin]

12 minutes ago, SharpeXB said:

I get that part. Just responding to the idea that turning to see your 6:00 is unrealistic. Also your ChatGPT link there says “impossible… without significant effort” Key point there, you can see the effort exerted in those videos. There’s no good way for a PC game to simulate that.

Funny, ChatGPT thinks a HUD is used to help the pilot look around

 

"to minimize the need to look around manually"

HUD showing where the enemy is:

Edited October 10, 2024 by tribbin

[SharpeXB]

4 hours ago, tribbin said:

"to minimize the need to look around manually"

That’s really an EW indication, not something you’d rely on WVR as a substitute for your Mk-1 Eyeball. The primary use of the Head Up Display is of course to keep your head up and looking around.

Edited October 11, 2024 by SharpeXB

[ShuRugal]

5 hours ago, tribbin said:

It is specifically about turning your head while under heavy G-load.

https://chatgpt.com/share/67082a44-7aa4-8002-a605-d2d71c6df01d

 

Always funny to watch ChatGPT get things confused.

G-LOC isn't a result of the body pulling blood in from extremities to keep the core going, that's something experienced under frostbite and hypoxic conditions.

G-LOC is a result of your heart physically lacking the strength to push blood up into your brain against the G-loading.  Your brain IS a vital organ, it's right at the top of the body's "supply oxygen here first" list.

[draconus]

13 hours ago, ShuRugal said:

Honestly, i think that TrackIR's ability to let the pilot's head turn 180 degrees or greater is more of a realism issue than VR head tracking is.

Yes, but there are apps like VRNeckSafer which do exactly the same for VR.

[ShuRugal]

10 hours ago, draconus said:

Yes, but there are apps like VRNeckSafer which do exactly the same for VR.

sure, and the proposal to introduce a mission-designer-controlled option for "give the player a red screen and maybe kill the pilot if realistic neck limits are exceeded" would resolve that issue as well.

[SharpeXB]

Whenever I see topics like this I detect the desire of VR players to nerf others because they’ve chosen to make the game so physically real on themselves. VR is a choice and if that handicaps you then that’s a choice as well. VR limits the player not only by requiring such physicality but also due to the restricted FOV and sweet spot of the headset itself. That aspect isn’t realistic either.

Frankly in playing in game-land you need to be viewing like this constantly or you’ll just end up watching your plane explode. 

[draconus]

13 hours ago, SharpeXB said:

VR limits the player not only by requiring such physicality but also due to the restricted FOV and sweet spot of the headset itself. That aspect isn’t realistic either.

Fov is just a hedset design limitation. Sweet spot is a byproduct of the tech but is real effect when looking forward. Only dynamic foveated rendering can mimic fully dynamic eye sweet spot.

The wish has nothing to do with VR vs 2D though - it's for both the same.

[Nodak]

What are you winning any way looking back at the guy who's bagging you?  If he's even marginally good your more than likely toasted any way no matter what you try, so where's the advantage and why the concern?  I want to see some fancy aerobatics and maneuvers done with the view locked to the rear, good luck with that.

Big fat nothing burger just another limitation on other peoples enjoyment of the game, it's not suppose to be work.

[SharpeXB]

21 hours ago, ShuRugal said:

sure, and the proposal to introduce a mission-designer-controlled option for "give the player a red screen and maybe kill the pilot if realistic neck limits are exceeded" would resolve that issue as well.

Well there’s no wounded effect in DCS. Not saying there shouldn’t be, but it would be odd if you can take a bullet and be fine but turn your head the wrong way and blood splatters all over your screen

6 hours ago, draconus said:

Fov is just a hedset design limitation.

But all VR headsets have a limited FOV compared to real life. That becomes an obstacle when trying to look at extreme angles.

6 hours ago, draconus said:

The wish has nothing to do with VR vs 2D though - it's for both the same.

I can’t say I’ve ever seen a 2D player ask to handicap themselves like this. Truth is if everyone can check six equally then there’s no advantage gained or lost so why worry. Trying to implement something like this realistically seems quite problematic. Remember this would need to affect AI as well.

18 minutes ago, Nodak said:

What are you winning any way looking back at the guy who's bagging you?

Defensive BFM requires you to maintain visual on the bandit in order to employ any maneuvers effectively. Do a search on the topic. 

Edited October 12, 2024 by SharpeXB