reported S-300PS missile battery doesn't work without the SAM SA-10 "Grumble" C2 unit

[Northstar98]

Hi everyone,

A somewhat minor issue, that's trivial to fix - a complete S-300PS missile battery doesn't work without the SAM SA-10 S-300 "Grumble" C2 unit (5K56S PBU).

IRL this unit is a regiment/brigade-level command and control unit, used primarily for forwarding targets detected via 5N64S RLO [Big Bird-B] radar to 2-6 missile batteries. The analogue to the Patriot system would be the AN/MSQ-116 ICC, which in DCS (as it should), is not required for a Patriot battery to function.

The 5N63S RPN [Flap Lid-B] fire-control radar has a cabin (F2K) mounted on the rear of the vehicle, which provides battery-level command and control (the Patriot analogue would be the AN/MSQ-104 ECS).

The missile batteries should be able to perform their own target search, independent of the command unit, using either the 5N66M NVO [Clam Shell] radar (albeit only against terrain-following targets) - which is required against NOE targets anyway, or via the autonomous target search mode of the 5N63S (which is 105° in azimuth by 1° in elevation (though this can be elevated up or down as needed and the radar itself can be rotated through 360°)). The F2K cabin of the 5N63S RPN should then provide all the command and control functions for the battery, including target acquisition via the NVO or the fire-control radar.

 

The 5N64S RLO [Big Bird-B] radar is already not required to have a working S-300PS missile battery (just the acquisition capabilities of the battery will be greatly diminished), the same should be true of the 5K56S PBU (SAM SA-10 S-300 "Grumble" C2). Without the 5N64S radar and/or with only a single missile battery, the 5K56S should be redundant (just as the AN/MSQ-116 ICC is redundant for Patriot without IADS functionality).

However, despite this, without the 5K56S PBU in DCS, the missile battery doesn't function - as if the 5K56S is treated as the sole command and control unit, which isn't the case. This means that if the command and control unit is disabled or destroyed, or is in the process of relocating, the missile batteries aren't usable, which also shouldn't be the case - they should still function, albeit with quite degraded acquisition capability.

 

The only difference between the 2 tracks below is that the noPBU track doesn't have the 5K56S unit and the wPBU track does. You can see that the target is not engaged if the PBU isn't present.

As above, without the RLO and with only a single missile battery, the 5K56S is redundant - the 5N63S RPN's F2K cabin provides all the necessary command and control functions for the battery, just as the AN/MSQ-104 ECS does for Patriot.

 

To fix this issue, all that needs to be changed is that the "depends_on_unit = { { { "S-300PS 54K6 cp" } } }," needs to be removed on line 23 of S-300PS 5H63C 30H6_tr.lua (for the self-propelled mount) and on line 19 of S-300PS 40B6M tr.lua (for the 40V6M mast-mounted version).

 

In case anyone is wondering what the structure of an S-300PS brigade/regiment looks like, see the spoiler below:

Spoiler

A command and control unit, consisting of:

• 1 5N64S RLO [Big Bird-B] - i.e. SAM SA-10 S-300 "Grumble" Big Bird SR (which is indeed a 5N64S, not a 64N6/64N6E or 5N64K as its model name suggests).
• 1 5K56S PBU - i.e. SAM SA-10 S-300 "Grumble" C2. This can in turn be connected to higher-level units as part of an IADS.

This provides brigade/regiment-level target assignment and command and control of up to 2-6 missile batteries (2-3 when configured as a regiment, 5-6 when configured as a brigade, but there's only 1 RLO and 1 PBU controlling the entire regiment or brigade). If DCS has proper IADS functionality (or even just facilitated AI groups communicating with each other and sharing detected targets, at least among applicable units), this should be its own separate group. Which (if DCS had trailer mechanics and the appropriate 5S17/5S18-equipped MAZ-7410 tractor for the RLO) would better enable shoot-and-scoot mechanics.

Each missile battery (and again up to 6 of these can be controlled by a single RLO + PBU) consists of:

• 1 5N63S RPN [Flap Lid-B], i.e. SAM SA-10 S-300 "Grumble" Flap Lid-B TR (though Flap Lid-A TR is the same radar mounted on a 40V6M mast, but without the F2K cabin used for battery-level command and control, which should remain on the vehicle).
• Up to 4 missile platoons, each platoon consists of:
  • 1 5P85S PU, i.e. SAM SA-10 S-300 "Grumble" TEL C. This is the smart TEL, which provides power and control of the platoon, in turn being controlled by the 5N63S RPN.
  • Up to 2 5P85D PU, i.e SAM SA-10 S-300 "Grumble" TEL D. These are "dumb" TELs, which cannot be used without the 5P85S, as the 5P85S is what provides electrical power and control of the platoon. Given the wired connection and the short length of the cables, these must be sited within a few metres of the 5P85S. Unfortunately, in DCS neither of these limitations are accounted for.
• 1 5N66M NVO [Clam Shell], i.e. SAM SA-10 S-300 "Grumble" Clam Shell SR. This provides low-altitude target acquisition, against terrain-following targets.

As an addendum if SAM SA-10 S-300 "Grumble" Flap Lid-A TR is used, then the site is without the F2K cabin required for battery level command and control of the fire-control radar, the NVO and the launchers.

Incidentally, the 5N63 RPN [Flap Lid-A] is the trailer mounted version used in the S-300PT, which solely uses command guidance to guide missiles (with a separate F2 cabin for battery-level command and control as well as separate generators). The Flap Lid-B is what's used in the S-300PS (as well as the S-300PM), but when used with a 40V6M mast, the radar is simply decoupled from the vehicle. The vehicle though is still required as it contains the F2K cabin for command and control as well as the 9S17/18 gas-turbine generators for electrical power. Ideally, the model would support having the F1 radar cabin removed from it.

 

S-300PS_missilebatt_test_noPBU.trk S-300PS_missilebatt_test_wPBU.trk

Edited October 15, 2024 by Northstar98
missing space, spelling, added addendum

[Gierasimov]

Providing a report + explanation + tracks + fix ?

WHO ARE YOU ? 

Thanks for the valuable insight into this system, I doubt it will be fixed by ED but anyways nice read as always! Well done.

[Whiskey11]

As with many things, the lack of proper IADS comes to make things difficult for us SAM nerds!   I can count on probably two hands the number of times I've seen a proper search radar that isn't a Clam Shell at an S-300 site... most of the Tin Shields/Big Birds are placed away from the actual launchers.  Doing this in DCS causes some really strange behavior.  One of those search radars could support multiple S-300's.  

Maybe some day!

[f-18hornet]

Thank you, reported.