Is OpenXR toolkit still necessary?

[FatCap]

Hi All,

New to the forum but been flying DCS for a few months after a long layoff from flight sims and had my old passion reignited by VR.

 

Anyway got an I91300K, 4080, wired Quest 3  setup and like many the last few updates have given me the stutters and I wondered if the culprit was OpenXR TK.  

 

If I disable OXR DCS will only launch to flat screen in the headset - I have to have it enable to launch VR, removed command line to force VR, use OXR and all combos, VR checked in the DCS menus, Quest & link up to date etc etc - but no matter what I do DCS seems to need OXR to launch in my case.

If anyone has any ideas/suggestion it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

P.S. standalone not using steam.

[Phantom711]

@FatCap

Yes. OpenXR is the default for DCS VR. BUt OpenXR and OpenXR toolkit are not one and the same. You do not need OpenXR toolkit to run DCS in VR.

[Mr_sukebe]

49 minutes ago, Phantom711 said:

@FatCap

Yes. OpenXR is the default for DCS VR. BUt OpenXR and OpenXR toolkit are not one and the same. You do not need OpenXR toolkit to run DCS in VR.

 

Question on that subject.

In XRtoolkit, it was possible to not only turn on/off Foveated rendering, but also to change the ratio of detail applied outside of the central and at the edge of the image, e.g. set it to 1/2 in the middle area and say 1/16th at the edge.

How do we control that without XRtoolkit?

[Flyingfish]

1 hour ago, FatCap said:

Hi All,

New to the forum but been flying DCS for a few months after a long layoff from flight sims and had my old passion reignited by VR.

 

Anyway got an I91300K, 4080, wired Quest 3  setup and like many the last few updates have given me the stutters and I wondered if the culprit was OpenXR TK.  

 

If I disable OXR DCS will only launch to flat screen in the headset - I have to have it enable to launch VR, removed command line to force VR, use OXR and all combos, VR checked in the DCS menus, Quest & link up to date etc etc - but no matter what I do DCS seems to need OXR to launch in my case.

If anyone has any ideas/suggestion it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

P.S. standalone not using steam.

Try using openxr toolkit with turbo mode enabled. I get stutters unless I use turbo mode

[slughead]

51 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

 

Question on that subject.

In XRtoolkit, it was possible to not only turn on/off Foveated rendering, but also to change the ratio of detail applied outside of the central and at the edge of the image, e.g. set it to 1/2 in the middle area and say 1/16th at the edge.

How do we control that without XRtoolkit?

Fixed foveated rendering is a feature of the OpenXR Toolkit, not a DCS feature. If you want fixed foveated rendering, you need the OpenXR Toolkit. An alternative is Quad Views Foveated Rendering, a similar tool by the same developer of the OpenXR Toolkit.

[Phantom711]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Mr_sukebe:

How do we control that without XRtoolkit

This only applied to the Foveated Rendering in the toolkit. If you use QuadViews instead, it is controlled in the respective settings.cfg. 
I would assume the same applies if you use Varjo Foveated.

I never said you HAVE TO turn OXR toolkit off though. If it still works for you…by all means, keep using it.

[Mr_sukebe]

Thanks.  I've uninstalled Toolkit and have QV and eye tracking ticked within DCS.

[sleighzy]

1 hour ago, Mr_sukebe said:

Thanks.  I've uninstalled Toolkit and have QV and eye tracking ticked within DCS.

Did you also install Quad-Views-Foveated, or just tick the box? What headset do you have? You need to install Quad-Views-Foveated if the runtime you're using does not natively support this, e.g. PimaxPlay is one such runtime that does (if you've selected that it is the OpenXR runtime).

Edited November 21, 2024 by sleighzy

[FatCap]

Thanks @Phantom711,  I hadn't realised DCS had native support for  OPenXR.

 

Any ideas why my DCS setup won't launch in VR unless I have OXR TK enabled ?

 

Also @Flyingfish, thanks  - used to work a treat with turbo mode enabled but these days I cannot get a stable experience - HAGS on/poff,  ASW enabled/disabled/ power setting, core parking, lasso - tried it alll but the stutters remain - setting are medium - can get a stable (ish) 45 fps in the headset - but with stutters.

[slughead]

1 hour ago, FatCap said:

Any ideas why my DCS setup won't launch in VR unless I have OXR TK enabled ?

Post your dcs log with and without openXR toolkit.

1 hour ago, FatCap said:

Also @Flyingfish, thanks  - used to work a treat with turbo mode enabled but these days I cannot get a stable experience - HAGS on/poff,  ASW enabled/disabled/ power setting, core parking, lasso - tried it alll but the stutters remain - setting are medium - can get a stable (ish) 45 fps in the headset - but with stutters.

Check your cpu and ram speed using the task manager. If you are using bios or intel defaults, your performance is likely being capped. Some recent bios updates have forced intel defaults. Running ram at stock and not xmp speed will also reduce performance significantly.

[FatCap]

Thanks @slughead

I'll post logs later today for the VR launch issue.

Performance - noted - I've got a Dell XPS8960 so AMI bios is not that configurable unfortunately but will check if I can make any improvements.

Should also note I've got DCS running on a WD SN850X 2TB SSD  and 64Gb of  crucial DDR5 running at 5.2G

[slughead]

Also check your cooling. Use HWINFO64 to chell to see if your processor is being temperature or power throttled whilst running DCS.

[FatCap]

Cooling - thanks @slughead will do.

[slughead]

Also, check how much VRAM is being used. If it's at or near the amount of VRAM in your card, you may want to turn down some settings to prevent graphics objects in memory from swapping in and out.

[WipeUout]

OXRTK is still relevant for two reasons:

1.  Sharpening with CAS because others ways will add to your frametime.  With my setup, there are three way to sharpen, either DCS sharpen slider, QVFR CAS setting or OXRTK CAS.  DCS sharpen and QVFR CAS offer similar performance but with OXRTK, I get 0.5 ms less GPU Frametime which is significant.

2. Testing settings and geting detailed recorded data.  OXRTK offers a great feature to capture not only FPS but also frametimes and recording it in a CSV file.  This is the best way to objectively compare changes in setting or new driver/software versions.  SteamVR with the fpsVR utility was great to monitor performance but not possible with OpenXR runtime anymore.   

[FatCap]

On 11/22/2024 at 10:05 AM, slughead said:

Post your dcs log with and without openXR toolkit.

Check your cpu and ram speed using the task manager. If you are using bios or intel defaults, your performance is likely being capped. Some recent bios updates have forced intel defaults. Running ram at stock and not xmp speed will also reduce performance significantly.

Hi @slughead  DCS logs attached - with OXRTK enabled VR launches OK, if I disable with/without force VR in cmd line VR launches to 2D in headset.

Appreciate the help

dcs_OXRTK-Disable-No-forceVR-XR-cmdline-options-NOVR.log dcs_OXRTT-disable-forceVR-cmdline-NOVR.log dcs_withOXRTK-foceVRandXR-VROK.log

[slughead]

Can you post a screenshot of your Meta Quest Link app Settings > General page, please?

[FatCap]

42 minutes ago, slughead said:

Can you post a screenshot of your Meta Quest Link app Settings > General page, please?

null

[slughead]

Hmm Ok. I'm not sure what the problem is.

In the cases where it fails, the log has this:

2024-11-25 12:34:00.453 ERROR   VISUALIZER (Main): OpenXR failure XrResult failure [XR_ERROR_FILE_ACCESS_ERROR]

Something may require a higher access permission to access or run something.

Have you tried running DCS with admin rights?

Is your user account an admin or a standard user account?

[FatCap]

46 minutes ago, slughead said:

Hmm Ok. I'm not sure what the problem is.

In the cases where it fails, the log has this:

2024-11-25 12:34:00.453 ERROR   VISUALIZER (Main): OpenXR failure XrResult failure [XR_ERROR_FILE_ACCESS_ERROR]

Something may require a higher access permission to access or run something.

Have you tried running DCS with admin rights?

Is your user account an admin or a standard user account?

Yep its a strange one.

Admin account and run DCS as administrator.

Tried slow repair, reinstalled meta sw etc - nothing seems to work.

[slughead]

9 minutes ago, FatCap said:

Yep its a strange one.

Admin account and run DCS as administrator.

Tried slow repair, reinstalled meta sw etc - nothing seems to work.

Or maybe it can't find a file. Have you tried uninstalling OXRTK and then running DCS without it installed?

Do you have any other OpenXR layers installed?

[FatCap]

10 minutes ago, slughead said:

Or maybe it can't find a file. Have you tried uninstalling OXRTK and then running DCS without it installed?

Do you have any other OpenXR layers installed?

Tried full uninstall - no joy.

AFAIK no other OXR layers installed.

It's got me completely stumped at the moment

[slughead]

Perhaps it is best to raise this in the VR bugs section with the logs for the DCS developers to review.

[FatCap]

59 minutes ago, slughead said:

Perhaps it is best to raise this in the VR bugs section with the logs for the DCS developers to review.

Thanks @slughead will do - really appreciate you taking a look at this for me 

[sleighzy]

2 hours ago, FatCap said:

Tried full uninstall - no joy.

AFAIK no other OXR layers installed.

It's got me completely stumped at the moment

You have the ReShade OpenXR api layer installed. Remove this and try again. There are known file access issues with this. What version of ReShade do you have installed? Can you also drop your ReShade.log file from the bin and/or bin-mt folders of your DCS installation for both this issue occurring (no OXRTK) and when it's fine (OXTK). Probably best to raise a new post with this information like Slugmouse said so that this current thread doesn’t get polluted. Really interesting that OXRTK seems to have an effect on this.

Edited November 25, 2024 by sleighzy