Current state of AMD vs Nvidia gpu for VR

[Hilding24]

I am planning on buying a new computer and the rtx 4080 Super or the rx 7900xtx are the ones i am considering. The 7900xtx seems to be better in raw performance especially as it is cheaper sometimes or costs the same as the rtx and it also has more vram. Do amd still have problems with drivers and VR and does the extra vram actually make much of a difference when both have quite a lot?

Right now i have a hp reverb g2 and will play both multiplayer and singleplayer.

[ricktoberfest]

1 hour ago, Hilding24 said:

I am planning on buying a new computer and the rtx 4080 Super or the rx 7900xtx are the ones i am considering. The 7900xtx seems to be better in raw performance especially as it is cheaper sometimes or costs the same as the rtx and it also has more vram. Do amd still have problems with drivers and VR and does the extra vram actually make much of a difference when both have quite a lot?

Right now i have a hp reverb g2 and will play both multiplayer and singleplayer.

It’s much better now than in the past (drivers). I run an amd 6950xt and I don’t notice any issues. Nvidia will always be a bit better performance but you have to decide if it’s worth the extra cost. The true competitor to the 7900 should be the 4090. The fact that you’re comparing to the 4080 is why the AMD would perform better.  The AMD equivalent of the 4080 would be the 7800 series. 

[Aapje]

Keep in mind that the 5080 is rumored to be announced at CES very early in Januari. I would personally wait for that, also since the 9800X3D should drop in price by then.

And the Reverb G2 is end of life, so you might want to start planning a replacement.

[The_Nephilim]

12 hours ago, Hilding24 said:

I am planning on buying a new computer and the rtx 4080 Super or the rx 7900xtx are the ones i am considering. The 7900xtx seems to be better in raw performance especially as it is cheaper sometimes or costs the same as the rtx and it also has more vram. Do amd still have problems with drivers and VR and does the extra vram actually make much of a difference when both have quite a lot?

Right now i have a hp reverb g2 and will play both multiplayer and singleplayer.

"Bit Bus" is very important and I think the 4080super is 256. I have a 4070Ti and 12700K and it is a challenge to run the Reverb G2 @90hz over 50% Native rez and that is with QuadViews for DCS. Mechwarrior 5 mercenaries has some issues too running higher res and hz rates..

 

and that is just the G2 if you are planning on getting a crystal light in the near future a xx90 series would be in order if you want to run this higher Hz rates.. I can happily run 60Hz all day long but the flickering is something to consider at lower Hz rates..

 

 

Edited November 1, 2024 by The_Nephilim

[EightyDuce]

6 minutes ago, The_Nephilim said:

"Bit Rate" is very important and I think the 4080super is 256. I have a 4070Ti and 12700K and it is a challenge to run the Reverb G2 @90hz over 50% Native rez and that is with QuadViews for DCS. Mechwarrior 5 mercenaries has some issues too running higher res and hz rates..

 

and that is just the G2 if you are planning on getting a crystal light in the near futere a xx90 series would be in order if you want to run this higher Hz rates.. I can happily run 60Hz all day long but the flickering is something to consider at lower Hz rates..

 

 

 

Confusion of terms...

"Bit Rate" is a measure of speed of data being sent and "256"-bit is the bus width of the 4080, which is a number of lanes between the memory and the GPU core. They are two different things.

Interestingly, 7900XTX has a 384-bit bus vs. 256-bit on the 4080, but it's just a part of the big picture.

 

To OP:

Historically nVidia cards tend to do better in DCS VR and DLSS is a better implementation of upscaling. Focusing only on DCS today, between 7900xtx and 4080S I'd say go with nVidia. Outside of DCS VR, AMD is a solid card in its own right. If you don't need ray tracing. Extra VRAM is useful for higher resolutions and asset resolution/size, 16Gb on the 4080 being sufficient today. With either card you will hit a wall with GPU compute capacity before you hit a wall with VRAM avaiability in DCS.

If you can hold out for a 50XX cards, they could be a good alternative if the price is right and you aren't in a hurry to upgrade.

[The_Nephilim]

19 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

Confusion of terms...

"Bit Rate" is a measure of speed of data being sent and "256"-bit is the bus width of the 4080, which is a number of lanes between the memory and the GPU core. They are two different things.

Interestingly, 7900XTX has a 384-bit bus vs. 256-bit on the 4080, but it's just a part of the big picture.

 

To OP:

Historically nVidia cards tend to do better in DCS VR and DLSS is a better implementation of upscaling. Focusing only on DCS today, between 7900xtx and 4080S I'd say go with nVidia. Outside of DCS VR, AMD is a solid card in its own right. If you don't need ray tracing. Extra VRAM is useful for higher resolutions and asset resolution/size, 16Gb on the 4080 being sufficient today. With either card you will hit a wall with GPU compute capacity before you hit a wall with VRAM avaiability in DCS.

If you can hold out for a 50XX cards, they could be a good alternative if the price is right and you aren't in a hurry to upgrade.

yes I just said it wrong but bit bus is what I ment  I corrected the post.. thnx..

[diego999]

35 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

To OP:

Historically nVidia cards tend to do better in DCS VR and DLSS is a better implementation of upscaling. Focusing only on DCS today, between 7900xtx and 4080S I'd say go with nVidia. Outside of DCS VR, AMD is a solid card in its own right. If you don't need ray tracing. Extra VRAM is useful for higher resolutions and asset resolution/size, 16Gb on the 4080 being sufficient today. With either card you will hit a wall with GPU compute capacity before you hit a wall with VRAM avaiability in DCS.

If you can hold out for a 50XX cards, they could be a good alternative if the price is right and you aren't in a hurry to upgrade.

 

This is solid advice.

[The_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, diego999 said:

 

This is solid advice.

well the rumors for the 5xxx are not encouraging.. but I still will wait for official word on them and hopefully some benchs. but I think the 5070 is going to have a 192bit bus too.. wondering what a 4080 super would net me right now..

[Hilding24]

16 hours ago, ricktoberfest said:

It’s much better now than in the past (drivers). I run an amd 6950xt and I don’t notice any issues. Nvidia will always be a bit better performance but you have to decide if it’s worth the extra cost. The true competitor to the 7900 should be the 4090. The fact that you’re comparing to the 4080 is why the AMD would perform better.  The AMD equivalent of the 4080 would be the 7800 series. 

But the cost of the 4080 super is closer to the 7900xtx than the latter is to the 4090

15 hours ago, Aapje said:

Keep in mind that the 5080 is rumored to be announced at CES very early in Januari. I would personally wait for that, also since the 9800X3D should drop in price by then.

And the Reverb G2 is end of life, so you might want to start planning a replacement.

I have already waited for more than a year because of other cirumstances. There will always be something to gain from waiting but it isnt always worth it. Still thanks for the info.

[TED]

I'll avoid any technical terms, but I'm using a 7900xtx pretty much since it it released and never had any issues. Great performance for vr with 8kx and Pico 4 on max resolution and dcs settings maxed. I get a solid 72fps with some drops to 65 low over built up areas. I love this card and don't see myself needing to replace it soon. I'm very picky about performance and stuttering and am very pleased with the 7900xtx.

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, TED said:

I'll avoid any technical terms, but I'm using a 7900xtx pretty much since it it released and never had any issues. Great performance for vr with 8kx and Pico 4 on max resolution and dcs settings maxed. I get a solid 72fps with some drops to 65 low over built up areas. I love this card and don't see myself needing to replace it soon. I'm very picky about performance and stuttering and am very pleased with the 7900xtx.

There you go. Some feedback from someone who actually plays with the card vs theory.

To be honest the biggest downwall of 7900XT(X) is the price AMD launched it at. Its a solid card with good mid-high end range performance and at something like $800-850 is a solid contender.

[Aapje]

About bus size, what actually matters is how fast the data can be transferred to and from the VRAM. This is a combination of the speed of the memory and the size of the bus. I expect a big uplift on this front for the Nvidia 50x0 cards because the new GDDR7 memory has much higher speeds, even if the bus size is not increased.

And the 4080 Super uses faster memory, so the actual difference with the 7900 XTX in memory bandwith is a bit less than the difference in bus size would suggest (736.3 GB/s vs 960.0 GB/s).

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

About bus size, what actually matters is how fast the data can be transferred to and from the VRAM. This is a combination of the speed of the memory and the size of the bus. I expect a big uplift on this front for the Nvidia 50x0 cards because the new GDDR7 memory has much higher speeds, even if the bus size is not increased.

And the 4080 Super uses faster memory, so the actual difference with the 7900 XTX in memory bandwith is a bit less than the difference in bus size would suggest (736.3 GB/s vs 960.0 GB/s).

Both matter, but for different reasons and under different conditions.

Bus width is the derivative of total vram capacity of a card. Each GDDR6 and GDDR6X chip has 2Gb capacity with 32-bit bus width. 16GB will result in a 256-bit bus and 24GB results in 384-bit bus.

GDDR6X is faster GDDR6 so all things the same X variant is superior due to clock higher speed. However, if you are hitting a VRAM limit then a higher capacity will edge out bandwidth as was an issue with 4070s in certain games with higher graphical settings due to the 12GB capacity.

[Aapje]

Quote

Bus width is the derivative of total vram capacity of a card.

No, it's the opposite, and even then it is a combination of the bus size and how many bits are used per GB. Once the 3 GB modules get used, cards can have 50% more VRAM for the same bus size. And it is also possible to run modules with half the bus width, so they could make a 24 GB 4070-variant right now, although the bandwidth to each memory module would be halved.

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

No, it's the opposite, and even then it is a combination of the bus size and how many bits are used per GB. Once the 3 GB modules get used, cards can have 50% more VRAM for the same bus size. And it is also possible to run modules with half the bus width, so they could make a 24 GB 4070-variant right now, although the bandwidth to each memory module would be halved.

Ah, good to know. Every day is a school day.

[Gman109]

Best advice for the OP is to WAIT - as others have said.

The 7800X3D absolutely trounces the newest/fastest new Intel CPU in gaming tests according to all the Youtube channels that have tested them head to head in the last couple weeks - so the new 9800X3D will be even faster/better, and waiting a short bit, just another couple months should do the trick, should make them both available and a bit cheaper.  Same with GPUs, no sense picking up a 4080/Super right now with the new 50xx series coming out for RTX Nvidia very, very shortly.  

 

 

[Hilding24]

1 hour ago, Gman109 said:

Best advice for the OP is to WAIT - as others have said.

The 7800X3D absolutely trounces the newest/fastest new Intel CPU in gaming tests according to all the Youtube channels that have tested them head to head in the last couple weeks - so the new 9800X3D will be even faster/better, and waiting a short bit, just another couple months should do the trick, should make them both available and a bit cheaper.  Same with GPUs, no sense picking up a 4080/Super right now with the new 50xx series coming out for RTX Nvidia very, very shortly.  

 

 

Well one can always use that argument. For different reasons i have already waited since the release of the 30-series to buy a new card and have other reasons not to wait now.

[EightyDuce]

30 minutes ago, Hilding24 said:

Well one can always use that argument. For different reasons i have already waited since the release of the 30-series to buy a new card and have other reasons not to wait now.

Buying today, and you've already gotten several recommendations, but I (no-personal experience with either card) would once again say 4080S over 7900xtx if the cost is not a sticking point and the primary focus is DCS VR. Reason being: DCS VR is historically performs better on Nvidia (difference may be negligible now with AMD driver improvements), 16Gb vram is sufficient today, DLSS upscaling in VR is objectively better than FSR. Someone who owns a 7900xtx and plays in VR posted their experience above and appears to be happy with it. 

It is upto you to decide if that is worth the $200-300 difference and if your goals/expectations align with those who are replying. 

[Aapje]

3 hours ago, Hilding24 said:

Well one can always use that argument.

Nevertheless, there are better and worse moments to upgrade. But of course it is your choice. I myself also picked a suboptimal moment to upgrade my platform because I had other reasons.

[LucShep]

3 hours ago, Hilding24 said:

Well one can always use that argument. For different reasons i have already waited since the release of the 30-series to buy a new card and have other reasons not to wait now.

Fair point, but at least wait for BlackFriday deals and such (keep an eye out there).

[Gman109]

Good arguments here regarding the Nvidia vs AMD choice - I've had 4080S and 4090 in both 13900k/14900k systems as well as an "all AMD" build I put together with the 7800X3D/7900XTX, and for DCS especially in VR, Nvidia is the CLEAR choice, it's not even close really, regardless of the CPU.  That said, the cost of the AMD card sometimes drops here in Canada during sales/whatever at the retailers up here. so I understand the $ can be a factor.  I'd still always recommend going with Nvidia, VR or otherwise.

[Joch1955]

I have a 3070ti 8GB which actually works very well in DCS with my 5800x3d, but I have been looking at potentially upgrading. The horsepower of the 3070 is fine, but 8 GB of VRAM is really borderline for DCS. I have to play with low/medium terrain textures on the Syria/Afghanistan maps, otherwise I can bust the VRAM limit and FPS craters. Thankfully, the visual difference between low and high textures is hard to notice. Ideally, you need a card with 16+ GB of VRAM to future proof performance for another 2-3 years.

I have switched often between AMD and NVIDIA over the years, but now only stick with NVIDIA. The hardware of AMD cards looks good on paper, but always seem to fall short in terms of driver performance, especially in VR. I have a reverb G2. Of course YMMV.

so looking at the upgrade field in fall 2024, there are two options:

Option 1: wait for the 5xxx series which should start coming out in two months. Historically, performance always goes up a step with each generation. My 3070 beats the 2080ti. A 4070 super beats a 3080 and the new 5070s should beat the 4080. But…specs that have been leaked so far do not hint at a serious performance increase, prices will probably be higher than the comparable 4xxx series and watt’s requirements would be higher which may force me to also upgrade my PSU ( currently 850w).

Option 2: pull the plug now on a 4080 super or a 4070ti super (which is actually just a detuned 4080). Both would offer a good performance upgrade over my existing card, but all are still listed close to their MSRP which has not budged in several months, so there no good deals out there and you can feel that inventory is starting to get tight.

my current plan: I have several cards on watchlists on several sites and will buy if there are good deals on Black Friday. Otherwise I will wait for the 5xxx series.

[5EVC Tiger]

I use the AMD 7800X3D / XFX 7900XTX Combo in VR with a Bigscreen Beyond headset (2580x2580, 75hz). I am 100% satisfied ! I recognized there was some issues a few years ago with new drivers but it is all fixed now. Much better price for same performance (if not better).

[MoleUK]

As much as I'd love to recommend AMD (And I absolutely do for CPU's), it's hard to do so for VR imo.

There were all the driver problems with 6000 and 7000 cards that led to poor performance. Afaik this was fixed somewhat for the 7000 cards after a certain driver release.

Unfortunately both are lacking vs Nvidia for encode, and that is a problem for any Quest/Pico headset. Not to say that you won't get good performance, just that it could be better.

And then there is DLAA. While it does introduce ghosting, a lot of that can be eliminated in DCS by switching the DLAA preset with DLSStweaks. DLAA has been the most beneficial addition to my VR experience in DCS since the introduction of MT. And in some ways its actually more important/positive than MT was imo. It annihilates the jaggies and shimmer, particularly at lower resolutions like 2500x2500 which is roughly what I run at.

Unfortunately Nvidia remain very greedy in terms of pricing and vram regardless. But I'd still recommend you go with an Nvidia card for VR, as long as you are getting one with 16 gigs of vram minimum.

If we're lucky, ED may eventually add XeSS for the AMD users to use. They really should, but we could be waiting a while.

Edited November 7, 2024 by MoleUK