FPS?

[Panzertard]

Yeah, I just tried ARMA 2. It sucked. Graphics are "ok", but their is no realism in the vehicles. The Ka-52 just has a big bullseye decaled over the hud. Flight model is arcade. Even the firearms kind of suck. Guess I'll keep on waiting...

Thats the kind of compromises you may get when you reach out and try to cover all the aspects in a war and making all the roles playable. Otherwise they would end up developing it forever - or using too many man-hours, so it would be too expensive for customers to buy.

Of course there might be someone who are able to put together a "war simulator". However I doubt there will be anyone daring to do so or even be successful at it. :)

[Kuro6]

Well, I think it actually would work out pretty good the way DCS is doing it. Just sell everything piece by piece. First is Black Shark, then A10, then Longbow, etc. They could sell an infantry soldier module, a Shilka module, a Linebacker module, and on and on. Just like plastic model kits are sold. Anything not developed for players is just kept Ai, like it is currently.

 

I agree, I think Arma tried to do everything at once, and just pushed it out in a hurry aiming at the pre-teen crowd who aren't too picky. And it was a disaster (well, at least for the serious adults). Arma 2 is the right idea, but Bohemian just did a really lousy, could care less, just throw it out, job on it. Its frustrating. I tell the AI to attack an enemy APC right in front of them, they say OK, then just sit there. They get hit by fire, and still sit there. Only when they get hit bad, do they finally start firing. Buggy as hell. The AI on BS may have some problems, buts its nowhere near as bad as Arma 2.

 

Piece by piece, with time spent on detail is much better and well worth waiting for.

Edited July 1, 2009 by Kuro6

[ARM505]

ARMA - Aiming at the pre-teen crowd?! So whats BF2/COD etc - aiming at those still in the womb?! And if you think the amount of work and evolution that's gone into ARMA 2 is a 'lousy, just throw it out job', then I think you misunderstand what's possible from a commercial company.

 

I guess expectations nowdays are unrealistically high. Put it this way: You will NEVER be happy with an all-rounder game like ARMA, so at least you don't even need to try it. Next time you can even avoid the demo too! Time saved!

 

I do believe that military sims like BS / Steelbeasts etc can eventually be combined in realistic ways, but to knock those that try with todays hardware and financial reality is a little short sighted, IMHO.

[Kuro6]

Oh please, the Ai won't even respond to my commands, even when they are being hit by rounds! The aircraft have nothing but a big bullseye for a hud! And this is not like its a first step. Arma has been around for quite a while. I really can't see much difference between Arma and Arma 2, except they changed the terrain a little. Maybe a little better graphics, but still nothing great. Just go on the internet and look up all the "Arma 2 sucks" threads. There's a lot of em. Arma 2 was tossed out half baked. At least they could have got the AI working. Now we have to sit back and wait for patch after patch after patch. No thanks.

 

I'll be waiting to see what OFP2 is going to look like. I think they will be doing a better job, but we will see.

[ARM505]

Did you seriously expect some kind of ultra-realistic systems simulation of the aircraft in ARMA2 (which 'grew up' as an infantry simulator)? And I just played an awesome couple of scenarios in the ARMA2 demo, my AI AT guys were nailing BRDM's with some great shots, with excellent reaction times. But if you don't like it, I'm not going to try and convince you. It's your choice. I do think you're expecting a bit much, and being very dismissive of some excellent features. Put it this way - I think you will remain permanently disappointed with non-study military sims.

 

Don't get me wrong - in something of the scale of ARMA, there's massive room for improvement (damage model, systems simulation, AI etc etc) - but I think they've done a good job, and I think you're writing them off too quickly. I like to take the evolution of the product as a good sign, and don't expect perfection with such an awesomely complex undertaking. I also wish anybody who attempts a cross platform simulation the best of luck - they'll need it.

[Kuro6]

Well, from the massive amounts of "arma 2 sucks" posts on the internet, I am definitely with the masses. Putting wings on a wagon, and welding an iron crosshair to it do not a jet make. Nor a heli for that matter. The AI are so stupid, its a wonder they don't commit suicide in mass. Your obviously one of the die hard arma fanboys. The masses like me are waiting for something far better, and we know it can be made. Crysis proves this. The only thing that prevents some modders from bringing in more realistic jets and heli's right now is a mapping bug that prevents you from having large maps. A guy named CWright is developing aircraft and trying to get Crytek to fix the bug. Also, through mass community pressure, Crytek seems to finally be adding to their wiki. Though this still has a long way to go. Seeing what Crysis has achieved, I expect far more from Bohemia. And as far as I can tell, they have done nothing with Arma 2 except rip off some programming from the ACE mod, and improve the graphics a little. Otherwise, its just the same old arma crap with the same old bugs. I think in the end, it will fail just like Arma did.

 

It will be interesting to see what OFP 2 will give us, as it looks like it may be something like Crysis and Arma combined, with a huge map. But that is something yet to be determined. Hopefully, they will include a very good SDK with it.

[LoBiSoMeM]

ArmA II = ArmA engine = OFP "improved" engine...

 

OFP2 = EGO engine...

 

Crytek, Codemasters and DICE engines are the benchmark today for FPS + vehicles. Bohemia uses a dated engine, with a lot of limitations and unsolved bugs.

[BTTW-DratsaB]

I am a bit disappointed by the release, with it's wildly varying performance. But I am happy to let them work on it. They are good developers who are more in touch with the community than most (we are spoiled here and I never take it for granted :) ). Arma 1 ran very badly when it was first released but they did make significant improvements, hell they are still making a patch for #1 even though Arma2 is out.

 

I have been a fan of BIS since ofp and their games have way more scope than anything else out there, nothing has even come close in all those years. Considering how big the island is (compared to any other game) and the amount of possibilities for the AI, I think they do pretty good. The Ofp/Arma series is an extremely ambitious project.

 

I think one of the main problems is peoples expectations of graphics. A massive gaming area with endless posibilities for missions and expecting the GFX to be on par with every other 2008/9 FPS game out there is not very realisitic, I think that really shows with Arma1/2, at there initial release time anyway.

[Kuro6]

Well, I look at BS, and they did great. So I hope that one day, they will put in player controlled vehicles and FPS. OFP2 looks like they are trying to go towards actual simulation. The comparison between the Arma Javelin and the OFP2 Javelin is laughable. OFP2 has a realistic javelin with flir, controls, etc. In Arma you get a pipe with a crosshair. :music_whistling: Its just junk. Why did they even bother? But OFP2 didn't put in any player controlled aircraft, so that makes me think they are probably not much farther along than Arma. Instead of putting in disappointing junk like Arma, they just forewent the whole thing. Therefore, why bother with a huge Island? So, in the end, I will probably stick with Crysis, and hope that with time, someone like DCS will start to simulate ground units and troops in a very realistic fashion.

[Acedy]

Since this thread has turned into yet another "ARMA love it or hate it" thread I guess its new home will be more appropriate. :)

[SUBS17]

As it is Black Shark already has a FPS mode all thats missing is the weapons. I think ideally you want a combined sim to start off with Global terrain combined with fully modeled aircraft. Then using the same global map make a 2nd sim thats compatible online that involves ships and submarines(688/Dangerous waters). Then a set of helicopter addons followed by a separate sim thats compatible which features tanks/vehicles and lastly FPS. If you think about it the helicopter/FPS and vehicle sims all have to share the same detail the aircraft and ship/submarine sims could work independently only sharing the same network code. If such a sim were to have a dynamic campaign then it would work its best with AI as most human players wouldn't want the less fun roles on the battlefield. The Quadcore PCs are about the type of PC I think could handle a sim like that which is a level above Arma2 although Arma2 is quite close in some areas. A Quadcore PC would be needed as a minimum as if you are flying then the FPS program is partly running in the background. The moment you get shot down or exit the aircraft it then would revert to FPS mode. It would be quite cool in MP to have compex jet/gunship sim in the same arena as an FPS like Arma. At the moment the Acemod is quite good and adds alot to the sim you can ground lase the tgts for LGBs(so long as you remember the batterys:doh:) and the gunships/bombers do require copilots/gunners. I think its possible that DCS, FO or possibly even a next generation version of Arma could get to this level ideally the guys who do Arma should do a deal with a sim company like ED and get them to make the aircraft. It would be cool if DCS had a Arma2 map and could work in arma through MP.:thumbup:

[LoBiSoMeM]

I really don't need to "walk out" of my helicopter during the play... Just like to blow up infantry and tanks controlled by human players, with human "I"... :thumbup:

[deadsmell]

I have only played the arma 2 demo, but i dont think it sucks by any means. The atmosphere and immersion level is outstanding in my opinion. And really ever since the original flashpoint, that is the quintessential experience that made the game so great. Just being immersed in that environment. The atmosphere is just fantastic.

 

Frankly anyone who is running around the internets screaming about how bad arma 2 sucks, is either so far beyond fanboyism that they are bordering on the edge of complete insanity, or just doesnt really appreciate these types of games for what they really are.

Heck ill even be so bold as to come right out and say that the whole buggy weird random nature of the ofp and arma series is a big part of its fun. Some of the absolute funniest stuff i have ever seen happen in a video game happened in OFP and the other night I was laughing my a** off at some of the bugs that were occuring in the arma 2 demo. It didnt make me mad or not want to play the game, it just made me laugh, (and i needed a good laugh too.)

Im just saying, people need to know what to really expect when going into these types of games, and not get all bent over a crosshair or something like that. Im still very excited to pick up a copy of arma 2 when it comes to stores, and Im sure im going to have a blast playing it.

Just because a few loudmouth naysayers are spouting off over the internet, doesnt mean that any of their complaints are even credible, or that the game is a flop.

The arma series, like the DCS series, is not for everyone, even though games like arma generate hype, and noone can deny how cool it looks when it all comes together with good players or whatever, most new players to the series are going to be immediately turned off by it just because it is so radically different than everything else they have ever played.

 

I also want to say I really like what they have done with the command menu, it seem much more streamlined, and the way you can "hotswap" to different members of the team is a nice addition (even though thats how i caused the bug where they just start yelling random stuff and wont shut up, its funny).

 

I cant wait to get my copy.

Edited July 3, 2009 by deadsmell

[element1108]

ARMA 2 is great fun for what it is. In my opinion multiplayer is the only way to play, enemy AI when you have real life guys ferrying you around and inside your combat platoon are super cool.

 

I haven't bothered too much with the single player so I haven't seen a lot of the problems that have been mentioned. If you get the settings JUUUST right for your machine ARMA 2 is smooth as silk.

 

It's currently the only game with this type of genre until OFP drops, which I'm also looking forward to (the new "hardcore" screenshots are pretty impressive...FLIR vision using the Jav especially look great.)