fixed AI helicopters flight doesnt wait for a Player from ground start

[YoYo]

I have the impression that something happened to the AI's behavior in general after the patch in November. If we have an AI helicopter as a wingman and we take off from the ground from cold and dark situation (+ hot start too), the AI after starting the engine does not wait for us but flies anywhere. This sometimes causes it to crash into nearby buildings because we're not in the air yet. Previously, the AI would only start when the Player took off from the ground. Now the AI starts on its ow n and doesn't wait for us.

test.trk

Edited December 5, 2024 by YoYo

[YoYo]

head2head.mizhead2head.trknexttoeachother.miz

Next example (with Kiowa). Mission plus track.

Also I added the video:

Importantly, I have been in talks with Polychop, this is not a Kiowa bug, but generally something happened to the helicopter flight model for wingman AI, if there is Ground Start (from the ground), this applies to the behavior of every helicopter from what I currently understand. This is a pretty serious bug that breaks many missions and campaigns that start from the ground (outside of FARP or Airport), and that wasn't the case. The November patch broke something in this behavior (from October 30th I think).

@Flappie Can I count on support? I think it's quite a serious matter.

 

Edited December 5, 2024 by YoYo

[YoYo]

CH-47F ground start, the same, strange behavior. AI wingman, starts doing something by himself, spins in circles, when player (flight leader) stands still. That wasn't the case. AI wingman only took action after player took off from the ground.

Mi-8MTV and Ka-50 III. Interestingly, in this situation we have the "old behavior" of AI wingman. AI does not take any action without the Player. Until you trigger the AI does nothing, he waits for your move. This was before the patch of 10/30/2024 for all copters.

I can give more examples, but the model of take off (even if "Prefer take off vertically" is checked) directly from the ground has been broken. It's a bit strange that no one has reported this yet, because it's a pretty serious problem that affects a lot of other things like missions and campaigns.

Edited December 5, 2024 by YoYo

[YoYo]

I also checked UH-1, same situation. Generally it shows that there is a problem with the AI model in the case of ground start clearly. In addition, the model passes through objects despite the crash option being on of course. In any case the weight is below the maximum, so it's not. Something happened and someone didn't notice it during beta testing. AI (skids copters problem?) should wait for the player to move and so it was before. I tested also Gazelle - the same issue! 

I ask that you treat this as a priority, because as I wrote, it affects the entire environment in the case of missions and campaigns.

[Flappie]

Hi @YoYo. Thanks for the heads up. It is now reported.

[metzger]

YoYo, I had similar issue in one mission in syria. Spent days to troubleshoot and couldn't find what triggers the wingman to do this weird behavior. Starting the same flight from the same airfieald (taftanaz) was fine on an empty from scratch mission.

Then based on ChillNG idea, I removed all static units which were anywhere near the runway, deleted and re-added player flight and problem was solved.

Give it a try, might be the same problem.

This wingman start taxi before the player or doesn't taxi and take off at all kinda issues occasionally come all the time. Really frustrating Like half of the time DCS single player is broken...

Sent from my SM-G985F using Tapatalk

[YoYo]

2 hours ago, metzger said:

YoYo, I had similar issue in one mission in syria. Spent days to troubleshoot and couldn't find what triggers the wingman to do this weird behavior. Starting the same flight from the same airfieald (taftanaz) was fine on an empty from scratch mission.

Then based on ChillNG idea, I removed all static units which were anywhere near the runway, deleted and re-added player flight and problem was solved.

Give it a try, might be the same problem.

This wingman start taxi before the player or doesn't taxi and take off at all kinda issues occasionally come all the time. Really frustrating Like half of the time DCS single player is broken...

Sent from my SM-G985F using Tapatalk
 

It also took me a while to find what it was about, but I now consider the problem diagnosed. In my opinion, it concerns helicopters on skids, Apache is ok too. AI waits for Player and does not start on its own.

[YoYo]

Gazelle example, the same:

Here the weight is also below 100%. But I have a curiosity. When I gave max fuel plus the heaviest loadout (weight was 105%), the helicopter stood still, moved slightly but at an acceptable level. AI waited until I took off, then flew with me without a problem, so we can assume that there is something in this behavior depends on the weight as well.

[YoYo]

On 12/6/2024 at 11:41 AM, metzger said:

Then based on ChillNG idea, I removed all static units which were anywhere near the runway, deleted and re-added player flight and problem was solved.
 

It doesn't matter in this situation, because I tried to take it in a different situations with the same results, outside the airport and without the static object and it's still the same. Here in the video I put static objects (no helicopters) to show the additional problem that the AI wingman starting from the ground doesn't even see them.

I hope it will be fixed in the nearest patch, wheelled helicopters look ok (apart new CH-47F) I suppose so if maybe the helicopter doesn't use the wheel brake instead of standing still it starts moving unconsciously.

Edited December 10, 2024 by YoYo

[YoYo]

Here's another example, a map of the Caucasus. UH-1, weight of course below max. 100%. AI wingman starts take off (!) by itself, without the any player's action, and it doesn't take off vertically as well (despite checking this option in ME), but flies straight at me without seeing me. Finally it crashes into the leader of the flight (me). In this case there are no added static objects or other AI helicopters, which clearly shows that this is not a statics issue. The problem appeared on 10/30/2024 in this patch, and was not corrected in the last one.

@f-18hornet has the problem been diagnosed yet and is there a chance it will be fixed in the next, December patch? The AI as a wingman has become useless in missions and campaigns, which is a pretty serious problem (when AI wingman is supposed to take off from the ground from hot or cold and dark start).test3.trktest3.miz

[f-18hornet]

Hi @YoYo, thank you, I will check report.

Edit: It is already fixed internally.

[YoYo]

3 hours ago, f-18hornet said:

Hi @YoYo, thank you, I will check report.

Edit: It is already fixed internally.

Wow great news, many thx!

[Flappie]

It's now fixed.

[YoYo]

5 minutes ago, Flappie said:

It's now fixed.

I was just about to write this. I didn't expect it to be in this Today's patch, because the main focus is on Iraq, and here's a surprise. I tested the UH-1 and OH-58 and the AI wingman stand and wait politely and obediently as mom ordered. So it looks like the problem is solved . I'll test 2 more of my missions, but for now everything looks fine. Thank you very much @Flappie and @f-18hornet for responding so quickly and making this a priority. I really appreciate it and hats off to you! 

[Flappie]

Thank you for reporting this issue very fast and providing tracks and videos.

[Cjayster13]

Unless this hasn't been added to the stable branch yet, this is still a problem and is still occurring. At least with the Apache.  I haven't tested with any other modules yet.

[YoYo]

5 minutes ago, Cjayster13 said:

Unless this hasn't been added to the stable branch yet, this is still a problem and is still occurring. At least with the Apache.  I haven't tested with any other modules yet.

I checked on my missions and everything is ok now. Maybe post a track of what you mean, because I don't fully understand. 

[Cjayster13]

I mean exactly what you have posted above. This is still happening on my Apache missions. The behavior is exactly the same as you have posted. I was asking if this bug fix has made it to the stable branch yet.

 

EDIT: This is happening on the Syria map from a helipad spot on one of the southern airbases.

 

Edited December 15, 2024 by Cjayster13

[YoYo]

1 hour ago, Cjayster13 said:

I mean exactly what you have posted above. This is still happening on my Apache missions. The behavior is exactly the same as you have posted. I was asking if this bug fix has made it to the stable branch yet.

 

EDIT: This is happening on the Syria map from a helipad spot on one of the southern airbases.

 

For me there was no any problem with Apache before, I'll check.

[YoYo]

Sorry, cant cofirm. Wingman is waiting for my move.

It stands and waits, it doesn't take off by itself, so everything is fine. It's not that, maybe you have something wrong with the mission. Track incuded.

test5.trk

[Cjayster13]

I Made a completely new mission from scratch and the apache still just takes off by itself. This happens for me at khalkhala airbase at H03 and H04.

EDIT: Tested on another parking spot at the same airbase and this All is OK. I think this may have something to do with the fact that the helipads i was using do not have a Taxi route/path to and from them. This was not an issue however in past versions.

 

Edited December 15, 2024 by Cjayster13

[Flappie]

@Cjayster13 Please attach your mission.