VR issues solved!

[Ahdidaas]

Back in 2022 I got a razer blade 15, i9 12 gen rtx 3080ti, 64 gb ram --  a sweet gaming laptop.  my fps was getting mid30s-mid40s asw after doing all the typical pc perf tweaks - turning off gpu hardware acceleration, core isolation, using hp power plan, mbuccia quad views (dyanmic using a quest pro).  i did it all. seemed every dcs version had to do a bit more tweaks -- perhaps tweaking some core affinites, changing system priority, etc..).  the helis would have the heaving fps hit -- caucaus a-10ii was usually pretty smooth.   

i was getting tired of spending most of my time tweaking the settings and then just living with the occasional stutter, or something otherwise less than ideal so i could at least play a bit.   in hindsight, i realized I should've just built a pc.  the advantages of having a gaming laptop back in 2022 for me are different now, and i would love to have an semi-perm spot in my place for flight simming, where a mid-tower would make sense.  i do like gaming in other spots in my place, which the laptop allows, yet i'm disappointing in the constant fight i have for dcs.  so I solved it...

a week ago, when online -- got a i9 14 gen, rtx 4090, 128 gb ram, z790, mid tower atx, cooler, etc...  surprised all the components showed in a week (though I do live in los angeles).  anyhow, all those youtube videos where folks are having max settings flying at 90fps?  that's me now!!!  

vr problems solved!  see ya on TTI!!

[jcenzano]

Back in 2022 I got a razer blade 15, i9 12 gen rtx 3080ti, 64 gb ram --  a sweet gaming laptop.  my fps was getting mid30s-mid40s asw after doing all the typical pc perf tweaks - turning off gpu hardware acceleration, core isolation, using hp power plan, mbuccia quad views (dyanmic using a quest pro).  i did it all. seemed every dcs version had to do a bit more tweaks -- perhaps tweaking some core affinites, changing system priority, etc..).  the helis would have the heaving fps hit -- caucaus a-10ii was usually pretty smooth.   
i was getting tired of spending most of my time tweaking the settings and then just living with the occasional stutter, or something otherwise less than ideal so i could at least play a bit.   in hindsight, i realized I should've just built a pc.  the advantages of having a gaming laptop back in 2022 for me are different now, and i would love to have an semi-perm spot in my place for flight simming, where a mid-tower would make sense.  i do like gaming in other spots in my place, which the laptop allows, yet i'm disappointing in the constant fight i have for dcs.  so I solved it...
a week ago, when online -- got a i9 14 gen, rtx 4090, 128 gb ram, z790, mid tower atx, cooler, etc...  surprised all the components showed in a week (though I do live in los angeles).  anyhow, all those youtube videos where folks are having max settings flying at 90fps?  that's me now!!!  
vr problems solved!  see ya on TTI!!

Nice tutorial on how to solve the problems in VR. Straight to the point.

Looking forward to the second part when 5090 is released.

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[Ahdidaas]

6 hours ago, jcenzano said:

Nice tutorial on how to solve the problems in VR. Straight to the point.

I took the path that I'm building a flight simulator, not a gaming rig.  for a while, tweaking setting was fun to see how much added performance I could get.  yet the pains -- all those various issues we all encounter -- greatly affected my ability to play, especially MP.  the game is so much easier when you're partially in DCS and partially out (ie. not in VR).  In VR, the immersion is so intense, having to also deal w/ tech issues is a major PINTA.   I've spent enough time horsing around, time to enjoy flying all these birds I keep buying!

[jcenzano]

I want to live in a world in which the software is lagging the hardware!!

Since I started playing flight sims with my Commodore 64, it has always the other way around, and it's so frustrating to be limited by HW, and for many of us, pretty expensive too...

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[Ahdidaas]

4 minutes ago, jcenzano said:

I want to live in a world in which the software is lagging the hardware!!

Since I started playing flight sims with my Commodore 64, it has always the other way around, and it's so frustrating to be limited by HW, and for many of us, pretty expensive too...

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Very true -- this is the first time (well, second if you count the gaming laptop) where I threw $$ into the air so I could finally get ahead of the software.   DCS provides what I dreamt about as a kid, so that's my excuse. 

[jcenzano]

Very true -- this is the first time (well, second if you count the gaming laptop) where I threw $$ into the air so I could finally get ahead of the software.   DCS provides what I dreamt about as a kid, so that's my excuse. 

That makes two of us!!

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[Aapje]

5 hours ago, jcenzano said:

I want to live in a world in which the software is lagging the hardware!!

It's only going to get worse with hardware improvements getting harder and harder to come by.

Also, you always had a choice to stick with older software, so I think that you don't actually mean that, because you could have chosen to forego the latest eye candy and other improvements, but you didn't make that choice.

Your lamentation feels a bit like blaming the supermarket while you are stuffing your face with cake, shouting 'why are you making me eat this?!' While the reality is that they only offer the choice and it is up to you to take it or leave it. 

[jcenzano]

It's only going to get worse with hardware improvements getting harder and harder to come by.
Also, you always had a choice to stick with older software, so I think that you don't actually mean that, because you could have chosen to forego the latest eye candy and other improvements, but you didn't make that choice.
Your lamentation feels a bit like blaming the supermarket while you are stuffing your face with cake, shouting 'why are you making me eat this?!' While the reality is that they only offer the choice and it is up to you to take it or leave it. 

I have (arguably) one is the best consumers PCs that you can build right now, with a 4090, an i9 14900 and 64Gb RAM, everything with quite some OC.

My "lamentation" is that, even getting the best available hardware, is not enough to get all the potential in modern Flight sims in VR.

No matter how much you spend.

I've been around enough to know how real life looks and how to adapt to it, but I was merely expressing a wish for a world in which, if you we're able to afford the best hardware, you would be able to run the Sims at their full potential.

And DCS is not the worst case. MSFS is even worse.

It's like wishing for world peace and no one being hungry. Unfortunately an utopia.

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[Oldahpilot]

Sometimes I have to pinch myself that we have (free at the basic level) access to a military flight simulator of such immersion on our PCs. 

My flying career involved regular use of military and civilian full motion simulators over a period of 30 years, so I'm aware of the complexity and huge cost of providing a state of the art flying and tactical experience to aircrew.

To think that these days I can recreate much of that experience in the comfort of my home for a comparatively modest cost ( less than £10k for a 4090/7800x3D, motion rig, VR headset, realistic controls, software) is actually quite astounding. 

 

[gonvise]

90 FPS in VR in al situations? what quest pro supersampling are you using? I have a similar hardware but it is impossible for me to maintain 90 in all situations, especially on the ground in missions with many units, but with 2.0 SS.

[SharpeXB]

7 hours ago, jcenzano said:

 

 

I have (arguably) one is the best consumers PCs that you can build right now, with a 4090, an i9 14900 and 64Gb RAM, everything with quite some OC.

My "lamentation" is that, even getting the best available hardware, is not enough to get all the potential in modern Flight sims in VR.

No matter how much you spend.

I've been around enough to know how real life looks and how to adapt to it, but I was merely expressing a wish for a world in which, if you we're able to afford the best hardware, you would be able to run the Sims at their full potential.

And DCS is not the worst case. MSFS is even worse.

It's like wishing for world peace and no one being hungry. Unfortunately an utopia.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
 

 

VR by its nature is about 3x as demanding to run as 2D. Since these games are primarily made for 2D, it wouldn’t be realistic to try and max out all the settings.

[Ala12Rv-Tundra]

9 hours ago, jcenzano said:

 

 

I have (arguably) one is the best consumers PCs that you can build right now, with a 4090, an i9 14900 and 64Gb RAM, everything with quite some OC.

My "lamentation" is that, even getting the best available hardware, is not enough to get all the potential in modern Flight sims in VR.

No matter how much you spend.

I've been around enough to know how real life looks and how to adapt to it, but I was merely expressing a wish for a world in which, if you we're able to afford the best hardware, you would be able to run the Sims at their full potential.

And DCS is not the worst case. MSFS is even worse.

It's like wishing for world peace and no one being hungry. Unfortunately an utopia.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
 

You could say the software is able to push the limits of hardware. And there is nothing wrong with that.

[av8orDave]

6 hours ago, gonvise said:

90 FPS in VR in al situations? what quest pro supersampling are you using? I have a similar hardware but it is impossible for me to maintain 90 in all situations, especially on the ground in missions with many units, but with 2.0 SS.

^ This, 100%. The problem with sharing performance in VR for DCS is that the baseline is nearly never the same. I too can get a solid 90 fps if I'm flying the Flaming Cliffs F-15C at altitude in the Caucasus with no other units on the map. Meanwhile, with the same settings, I could drop down to barely being able to maintain 50 - 60 fps if I'm sitting on the ground in the AH-64 in the Marianas with a 18 other AI units around. It all just depends. 

The bottom line, I have learned in my experience, is that DCS is very bottle-necked / constrained by the CPU. I have a 4090, and performance is nearly never limited by the capability of the graphics card. I have a Rzyen 9 7950X, and if I push the envelope with AI unit count, the framerate begins to struggle in a major way.

[Aapje]

11 hours ago, jcenzano said:

My "lamentation" is that, even getting the best available hardware, is not enough to get all the potential in modern Flight sims in VR.

 

That's because your expectation is completely unrealistic. It's simply impossible for the maximum settings of the software to use the exact potential of the hardware, no more, no less, in a world with varying software and hardware.

Both DCS and MSFS are not demos that display one fixed scene, but they are a dynamic environment, especially if you factor in all the modules that can vary. What maxes out the hardware in one situation is not going to max it out in different situations. So the only way for the hardware to never be maxed out completely is to always stay under the potential of the hardware. But obviously, that means leaving eye candy and other features below what they can be.

Furthermore, it would also mean that game developers would have to wait to innovate until faster hardware is available, but since innovation takes time, this would mean that the hardware would actually remain unused. 

As I said before, you have the choice to have the software never exceed your hardware, by sticking to old games that lack the more demanding features that are in the newer games. But apparently you don't want that, you want maximum eye candy, but you don't want maximum demand on your hardware. Yeah, that's not how the world works.

Ultimately, there is no technical solution for what you want, since it is a fundamentally irrational demand that is at odds with how the world works. The only solution for you is to recognize that your feelings are irrational and any attempt by anyone to cater to those feelings would in fact just make you less happy.

[Panzerlang]

"Lamentation" and "wish" are not "expectation".

[jcenzano]

"Lamentation" and "wish" are not "expectation".

I only stated a wish.

The rest is people putting words in my mouth that I didn't say.

A wish is a wish.

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[Ahdidaas]

yes, YMMV -- map, MP server, what plane or heli you're flying.  the diff between then and now is that the FPS is now high enough to be amazing!  and I'm able to jump in much easier now and not spend extra time prepping everything to max out my performance.  not having dips that go into the 20s or 30s fps is a major victory and one that makes the VR experience so much better.  worth the $$ if you're into the flight sim experience.  

though i will say the largest improvement ever comes from using dynamic quad-view via eye tracking (ala quest pro).  i'd suggest that change first over any add'l hardware ones.

[Qcumber]

I would agree with that. Trying to run DCS with full settings and highest res needs an rtx 6090Ti super! With eye tracking you can get a massive boost and get reasonable performance on an rtx 4070. 

[SharpeXB]

5 hours ago, Aapje said:

Furthermore, it would also mean that game developers would have to wait to innovate until faster hardware is available, but since innovation takes time, this would mean that the hardware would actually remain unused. 

That’s really just the case in games like this, meant primarily for 2D but being run in VR. I know this is a VR discussion but that sounds like some observation about games in general. Very rarely do I see games that are so demanding that they can’t be played maxed out on top hardware. DCS can, again only in 2D as intended. 

Edited December 20, 2024 by SharpeXB

[Silver_]

 This is not, as I have read here, about the software being ahead of the hardware; in my youth I have programmed a lot in assembler and I have never seen this before. In fact, programmers use current hardware and not more advanced hardware that no one has (this is ridiculous). All of this is a bunch of excuses for not telling the truth, that the software is poorly optimized!!!. It may be very pretty on the outside and  painted pink (good graphics) but on the inside it is rotten.

Of course, all this has an easy solution and it is the one that some have pointed out here, "I buy the most advanced and expensive machine and I'm sure it will work well for me" this, and sorry, even my little boy knows it, who has no idea of computers. Anyway, as others have pointed out, and well, even if you buy the best machine there are still problems in various situations (it does not always work at 90 FPS). This is due to only one thing: "You have a utility car powered by a Ferrari engine", obviously with some adjustments the utility car will run a lot with this engine but you will never have the line or design of a sports car and you will get vibrations ( sttutering) everywhere.

I hope I have explained myself well with the comparisons.   

Edited December 30, 2024 by Silver_

[Phantom711]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Silver_:

All of this is a bunch of excuses for not telling the truth, that the software is poorly optimized!!!

I don‘t know how old you are, but this has always been the case with flight simulators. Jane‘s US Navy Fighters, Strike Commander, Falcon 4.0 etc….they always demanded pretty much the latest hardware…so, there’s nothing to see here…move on…!

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Silver_:

it does not always work at 90 FPS

And? What‘s that obsession with 90FPS? But I tell you something, it won‘t even make 72FPS in certain situations…

[Silver_]

17 minutes ago, Phantom711 said:

I don‘t know how old you are, but this has always been the case with flight simulators. Jane‘s US Navy Fighters, Strike Commander, Falcon 4.0 etc….they always demanded pretty much the latest hardware…so, there’s nothing to see here…move on…!

Obviously friend, I know them all, even Fighter Pilot by Digital Integration on the ZX Spectrum needed resources but that has nothing to do with it being poorly optimized.

Edited December 30, 2024 by Silver_

[Panzerlang]

5 hours ago, Silver_ said:

Obviously friend, I know them all, even Fighter Pilot by Digital Integration on the ZX Spectrum needed resources but that has nothing to do with it being poorly optimized.

And then add headset software to the mix. And myriad utilities (NeckSafer, SimHaptic etc). And then when they're combined vs running on their own. It's a minefield.

Having said that, DCS stutter seems to be ubiquitous.

[Silver_]

And then add headset software to the mix. And myriad utilities (NeckSafer, SimHaptic etc). And then when they're combined vs running on their own. It's a minefield.

Having said that, DCS stutter seems to be ubiquitous.

DCS doesn't need anything to make it stutter, it does it on its own.

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[obious]

2 hours ago, Silver_ said:

DCS doesn't need anything to make it stutter, it does it on its own.

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OXRTK Turbo Mode FTW