missing info AI IR missiles seeker greatly outranging "player" seekers

[SparrowLT]

So not only we have the bug of IR missiles being impossible to evade now.. but also the AI aparently has a seeker with much more range than ours..

 

yesterday i was in PVE 4YA Caucasus EU with the F-14 and an AI F-5 was coming straight at me and i only had avalaible the 9M .. the AI uses the 9P5 at much (and thats exacrtly what it used on me) so we were head on ..and this happent.

 

The AI  F-5 is aproaching straigh at 65000f (~11nm )
i have selected AIM-9M .. he uses as we know AIM-9P5 at best ..  i have him lock and the 9M seeker searching and waiting for when it gets some tone to press uncage so the 9M locks hard and try to fire head on as i know what he is gonna do and what the bug is..

 

 

13 seconds later .. 40000f or 12kms (6.5nm) ..he fires an AIM9P5 ..  12kms.. my 9M still has no tone whatsoever
at this point with the bug you are dead

 

10 seconds later at 24000f (7km - 4nm) i get a short of a tone and fire right away without hard lock.. (just early tone) a few seconds later get a hard tone in the second 9M and fire that one too because why not

 

 

3 seconds later im dead .. 9P5 hits dead on ignoring ALL the flares (as we know)
at 17000f  5km
now comes even more interesting bugs:

 

 

4 seconds later he eats the first 9M wich as you may renember was fired without hard lock ..just as the 9M got the first faint tone...
the second 9M wich had the hard lock of uncaging.. never tracks

 

 

Track uploaded.. its towards the 46m mark.

 

 

So to sum all up ..the AI AIM-9P5 got tone and tracked from 6.5nm while my 9M couldnt get even a faint tone with the target locked with radar (so seeker knew where to lock) until 4nm .. hilariously the result was the same as thanks to the bug both missiles behaved like an AMRAAM

 

When i play for example in Enigma with the F-5E many times i have enemies right in front and i cant get tone with the 9P with the seeker pointed right at their pipe...

Tacview-20250105-234705-DCS-Client-4YA_CAU_PVE2_DS_V2.113[03_DEC_BKN].zip.acmi

Edited January 6 by SparrowLT

[Mad_Shell]

You know that the F14 emits more heat than the F5, right?

heat emission coefficient with military power in DCS:

F5: 0.4          F14B: 0.9

Redo the test with an AI using same aircraft and same missile, otherwise you prove nothing.

[SparrowLT]

Are you implying the AIM-9P5 seeker is exactly same as the AIM-9M? (at least for AIs?)

[Tholozor]

AFAIK, the seeker on the P5 has some of the all-aspect capability from the 9L and some of the IRCCM capability from the 9M, so imo it's kind of a half'n'half between those two.

That aside, you should be testing the same missile against the same aircraft to test if the AI have something benefitting them under the hood, because this looks normal to me considering the 14's much larger heat signature over the F-5.

[SparrowLT]

did the test using the F-5E both me and AI using AIM-9P5

 

interesting results..

i get tone and good lock at 42000f.. against another F-5E... same as the AI F-5E fired on my F-14B from 40000f away.. however unlike the AI my AIM-9P5 somehow in the way decided to NOT track and go run wild with other free AIM-9s even when the AI F-5 wasnt even flaring until it was allready lost track

 

 

Then in the how close would the F-5 AI wait to fire on my F-5E ..it fired at 25000f.. would say makes sense for the IR differences Mad_shell said were not for the fact that i could lock from 42000f with the 9P5 when the 9M could not against same target...

 

 

then  repeated the flight with F-14B

 

He fired 21000f away from me .... but my 9m i could NOT lock until he was 10000f away.

 

 

 

 

 

So..

 

With F-5E using AIM-9P5 i can get tone and fire on him from 41000f   ..he will wait until 23000f to fire on me (in MP he fired from 40000f against F-14B)

 

but with F-14B using AIM-9M i need to get to 10000f to get tone and fire on him... so the AIM-9P5 apears to outrange the Mike 4 times...

 

Tacview-20250106-203258-DCS-dogfight mult 1vs1 F-5 (caucaso).zip.acmi

Edited January 6 by SparrowLT

[AeriaGloria]

7 hours ago, SparrowLT said:

did the test using the F-5E both me and AI using AIM-9P5

 

interesting results..

i get tone and good lock at 42000f.. against another F-5E... same as the AI F-5E fired on my F-14B from 40000f away.. however unlike the AI my AIM-9P5 somehow in the way decided to NOT track and go run wild with other free AIM-9s even when the AI F-5 wasnt even flaring until it was allready lost track

 

 

Then in the how close would the F-5 AI wait to fire on my F-5E ..it fired at 25000f.. would say makes sense for the IR differences Mad_shell said were not for the fact that i could lock from 42000f with the 9P5 when the 9M could not against same target...

 

 

then  repeated the flight with F-14B

 

He fired 21000f away from me .... but my 9m i could NOT lock until he was 10000f away.

 

 

 

 

 

So..

 

With F-5E using AIM-9P5 i can get tone and fire on him from 41000f   ..he will wait until 23000f to fire on me (in MP he fired from 40000f against F-14B)

 

but with F-14B using AIM-9M i need to get to 10000f to get tone and fire on him... so the AIM-9P5 apears to outrange the Mike 4 times...

 

Tacview-20250106-203258-DCS-dogfight mult 1vs1 F-5 (caucaso).zip.acmi 46.08 kB · 1 download

Better to post the mission. Are you setting AI to fire at max range?

[SparrowLT]

13 hours ago, AeriaGloria said:

Better to post the mission. Are you setting AI to fire at max range?

Didnt even knew that was an option

dogfight mult 1vs1 F-5 (caucaso).miz

[DSplayer]

On 1/6/2025 at 11:39 AM, SparrowLT said:

did the test using the F-5E both me and AI using AIM-9P5

 

interesting results..

i get tone and good lock at 42000f.. against another F-5E... same as the AI F-5E fired on my F-14B from 40000f away.. however unlike the AI my AIM-9P5 somehow in the way decided to NOT track and go run wild with other free AIM-9s even when the AI F-5 wasnt even flaring until it was allready lost track

 

 

Then in the how close would the F-5 AI wait to fire on my F-5E ..it fired at 25000f.. would say makes sense for the IR differences Mad_shell said were not for the fact that i could lock from 42000f with the 9P5 when the 9M could not against same target...

 

 

then  repeated the flight with F-14B

 

He fired 21000f away from me .... but my 9m i could NOT lock until he was 10000f away.

 

 

 

 

 

So..

 

With F-5E using AIM-9P5 i can get tone and fire on him from 41000f   ..he will wait until 23000f to fire on me (in MP he fired from 40000f against F-14B)

 

but with F-14B using AIM-9M i need to get to 10000f to get tone and fire on him... so the AIM-9P5 apears to outrange the Mike 4 times...

 

Tacview-20250106-203258-DCS-dogfight mult 1vs1 F-5 (caucaso).zip.acmi 46.08 kB · 7 downloads

I was able to get tone at the same range against the F-5 with both the AIM-9P5 and AIM-9M in the mission you provided. In the files the AIM-9P5 and 9M also have the same seeker in terms of detection range.

Perhaps providing a track file showing what you experienced would be better than just Tacview screenshots since they're not that helpful in this instance.

Edited January 12 by DSplayer