NVIDIA 5 Series cards - Get your wallets ready boys and girls....

[EightyDuce]

Well, there it is.

 

 

[Pipe]

im in! still using a 2080ti

[LucShep]

It's been a while and demand will be high, lots of people have been waiting for them to upgrade and it'll be another crazy race (scalpers warning) as soon as they get out. 
My guess is that prices will be noticeably higher than that.

The announced USA prices are good, but then those are just MSRP ("Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price", emphasis on suggested).

Now for Europeans, better expect prices to be at least 25% higher than that (they always are), so something like this:

RTX5090    --->  ~2500€
RTX5080    --->  ~1250€
RTX5070Ti --->  ~950€
RTX5070    --->  ~700€

Anyways, let's hope the performance increase is worth the long wait (GDDR7 should be great), and that prices don't get stupid crazy inflated.
 

Edited January 7 by LucShep

[EightyDuce]

Patiently waiting on HUB, GN and others to get their hands on these and get some tangible reviews out.

When Jensen showed a slide for the 5070, saying 4090 performance for $549, skepticism started to trickle in quick. 

[Blackhawk163]

Yeah, can’t wait for the scalper tax to hit and that’s from the retailers, nvm the actual scalpers. I’ll still get one, and see if it can actually power the PCL at native resolution with some added bells and whistles, and if it doesn’t back to wherever I buy it from. 

[scommander2]

It was not extremely expensive for 5090.

Edited January 7 by scommander2

[Dangerzone]

Not sure if this would help me. I seem to be CPU bound, never GPU bound. 

Just this week I had the FPS dipping as low as 20 and all over the place, being CPU bound. 4090, and I was only in the mission editor - not even flying. Strangely, haven't had an issue so far when actually flying - so no idea what DCS was getting all bound up about (excuse the pun). 

[Mausar]

Still on 3080 and doing fine atm (VR) but time is coming for complete upgrade. Will wait few more months then I will decide 5080/5090...

[Mr_sukebe]

There's been some interesting noise earlier about the frame rates being lauded and how some of that is being achieved using the update frame generation tech, which instead of generating an extra frame, is with DLSS4 capable of generating 3.

It's apparently great for smoothness, but does mean:

• the "doubled" performance is going to happen with games that supports DLSS4
• we don't know whether  there will be a visual impact of the tech
• will it be compatible with VR?  DLSS3.5 frame gen wasn't (to my knowledge)
• there's mention of latency.  Maybe that's far more relevant in FPS games

In short, there's still quite a few question marks to be answered.

On a positive not, prices for Founders Edition Cards have been released for the UK, and they're not quite as painful as they could have been (scroll down to the bottom of this link):

GeForce RTX 50 Series Graphics Cards | NVIDIA

Edited January 7 by Mr_sukebe

[LucShep]

34 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

There's been some interesting noise earlier about the frame rates being lauded and how some of that is being achieved using the update frame generation tech, which instead of generating an extra frame, is with DLSS4 capable of generating 3.

It's apparently great for smoothness, but does mean:

• the "doubled" performance is going to happen with a game that supports DLSS4
• we don't know whether  there will be an visual impact of the tech
• will it be compatible with VR?  DLSS3.5 frame gen wasn't (to my knowledge)
• there's mention of latency.  Maybe that's far more relevant in FPS games

In short, there's still quite a few question marks to be answered.

The new RTX 5000 series are expected to be 20%~25% faster (rasterization) depending on game title, and that's about it.
Their prices (real ones, not MSRP) should also reflect this as well. 

It's looking like a repeat of what we saw with the RTX 2000 series going back to late 2018, where the performance lift was linear (not that big compared to previous generation) with focus on proprietary features advancements, and we see that's where those big performance increase numbers are being based at, using DLSS4 (with FG).

Frame Generation (FG), aka "fake frames", is a mediocre solution because it always introduces a huge ammount of input lag and ghosting, and no AI solution can fix that. 
It's a miserable experience, unless you drop down your standards so low that you acccept it in defeat, as a desperate atempt to increase framerate.

That said, it's only once the reviews are out that we will find out how it really is.

34 minutes ago, Mr_sukebe said:

On a positive not, prices for Founders Edition Cards have been released for the UK, and they're not quite as painful as they could have been (scroll down to the bottom of this link):

GeForce RTX 50 Series Graphics Cards | NVIDIA

Now that's good to know, but then that's Founder Edition models from Nvidia (which, as usual, will be out of stock very quickly once they're made available).

So that's still "MSRP", and not the final retail prices of AIB models that most users always end up getting from retailers.

People who think they will buy those at such prices are in for quite the disapointment. 

 

Edited January 7 by LucShep

[Aapje]

5 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

When Jensen showed a slide for the 5070, saying 4090 performance for $549, skepticism started to trickle in quick. 

Nvidia lies about the performance compared to the previous generation during every release presentation. So these kinds of statements are just bald faced lies that one should ignore.

Anyway, the pricing is roughly what I expected. I predicted that they would keep the 40x0 Super pricing, except for the 5090, and that's pretty close, but they reduced the price of the 5070 and 5070 Ti by $50. Probably in response to a substantial decline in sales now that lots of people have been hit hard in their wallets.

The 5070 Ti seems to be a relatively good deal, you get 4 GB more VRAM and a 256 bit bus for $200 more than a 5070, while moving up to the 5080 costs $250 more, for the same gain in cores, but no extra VRAM or bus width. So you get less extra, for more money. Historically, the cut down cards that keep a large bus often punch above their price class, although Nvidia can always choose to choke this off by putting lower clocked VRAM on them.

I guess/predict that we will get a Super refresh in a year with 3 GB modules, so then they'll upgrade the 5070 Super to 18 GB. This should really improve the longevity of that price class and how well it works with certain demanding games (cough*DCS*cough), so people interested in that price class may want to wait another year if they don't have to upgrade soon.

PS. Jensen thinks that all gamers spend $10k on their gaming rigs, which is not even true for the average flight simmer, let alone the average PC gamer.

[Aapje]

1 hour ago, LucShep said:

Frame Generation (FG), aka "fake frames", is a mediocre solution because it always introduces a huge ammount of input lag and ghosting, and no AI solution can fix that. 

They are claiming to have reduced the ghosting (for all DLSS variants) by switching to a different kind of AI model:

 

 

[EightyDuce]

I'm honestly surprised the MSRP for the 5090 is $2000. It's basically 4090 levels on markup with cost adjustment for the new PCB, memory chips and silicon.

I guess I was expecting them tonget even more greedy and seek higher margins. I wasn't going to be surprised to see 2200-2400.

We will have to see where clock for clock performance falls, because as been mentioned, depending on how they are calculating the performance increase (frame generation?), it could be a moot point in VR which is what we were interested in the most. 

[Aapje]

HUB expects a 20% increase in price/performance:

 

 

Edited January 7 by Aapje

[EightyDuce]

11 minutes ago, Aapje said:

HBU expects a 20% increase in price/performance:

 

 

That would be my expected range, 20-30% bump from 4090 to 5090.

The increased reliance on frame generation to make up performance is what is concerning. At the current state of FG, it is a good ways from an ideal solution due to latency as well as the actual quality of frames being generated. Their tech demo for DLSS 4 frame generation mentions generating 3 frames instead of 1, which in marketing speak is apparently 3X performance boost...

 

[TED]

And no realistic answer to competition from AMD. There latest announcement of a 9070 with performance similar to a 4070 means the Nvidia 5080 and 5090 cards stand alone, allowing Nvidia a large amount of freedom with their pricing. Perhaps amd will announce a 9090 card later in 2025 but I feel they've lost the race and lost any momentum they previously had in competing for higher end customers. 

[Panzerlang]

The race is now officially on...which reaches the line first, the Pimax Super or 5090? 

[EightyDuce]

8 minutes ago, Panzerlang said:

The race is now officially on...which reaches the line first, the Pimax Super or 5090? 

Yes? Lol.

Sadly, while 5090 is going to be almost a requirement for to meaningfully take advantage of Pimax Super hardware, if it's 20-30%faster than 4090 may still not be enough, at least at the settings i would like to run at; I realize that what I consider acceptable settings vs someone else can and likely is, wildly different. 

But Pimax promises are in the same category as Nvidia 3X performance claims.... Reality may be different . 

 

Dynamic foveated rendering is going to be doing some heavy lifting. 

Edited January 7 by EightyDuce

[EightyDuce]

19 minutes ago, TED said:

And no realistic answer to competition from AMD. There latest announcement of a 9070 with performance similar to a 4070 means the Nvidia 5080 and 5090 cards stand alone, allowing Nvidia a large amount of freedom with their pricing. Perhaps amd will announce a 9090 card later in 2025 but I feel they've lost the race and lost any momentum they previously had in competing for higher end customers. 

AMD telegraphed for quite a while that RDNA 4 wasn't going to compete nVidia at the high-end part of the stack and rather focus on the midrange. 

[LucShep]

1 hour ago, TED said:

And no realistic answer to competition from AMD. There latest announcement of a 9070 with performance similar to a 4070 means the Nvidia 5080 and 5090 cards stand alone, allowing Nvidia a large amount of freedom with their pricing. Perhaps amd will announce a 9090 card later in 2025 but I feel they've lost the race and lost any momentum they previously had in competing for higher end customers. 

As said, they will not compete in the higher-end segment this time around, betting on the mid and lower segments.

But indeed, AMD is looking like the biggest loser so far, unfortunately.

Latest speculation is that AMD decided to abandon any mention of the RX 9070 / 9070XT in CES at the last minute, after watching what Nvidia shown for the RTX5070 (performance, new tech, and price) that it will compete with. As in, either AMD will have to reassess (and hence postpone) its presentation and also lower MSRP (to cut the RTX5070 competitor) or they may be dead in the water.

FSR4 will now feature their own AI tech and be exclusive to the AMD 9000 series GPUs (and that has been announced). But then, if that market will be about 10% (if that much?) of the global one, how many developers are going to waste time and resources to adopt such exclusive tech into their PC games?

 

Edited January 7 by LucShep

[Panzerlang]

35 minutes ago, EightyDuce said:

Yes? Lol.

Sadly, while 5090 is going to be almost a requirement for to meaningfully take advantage of Pimax Super hardware, if it's 20-30%faster than 4090 may still not be enough, at least at the settings i would like to run at; I realize that what I consider acceptable settings vs someone else can and likely is, wildly different. 

But Pimax promises are in the same category as Nvidia 3X performance claims.... Reality may be different . 

 

Dynamic foveated rendering is going to be doing some heavy lifting. 

I'll be ok down sampling the Super, it's the greater FOV I'm after...assuming that's not going to turn out to be another Pimax lie. 

[EightyDuce]

1 minute ago, Panzerlang said:

I'll be ok down sampling the Super, it's the greater FOV I'm after...assuming that's not going to turn out to be another Pimax lie. 

Won't know until it's in peoples hands. Pimax promises tend to change or straight up disappear as time goes on and they just move on to and announce new products. 

[SharpeXB]

3 hours ago, LucShep said:

Frame Generation (FG), aka "fake frames", is a mediocre solution because it always introduces a huge ammount of input lag and ghosting, and no AI solution can fix that. 
It's a miserable experience, unless you drop down your standards so low that you acccept it in defeat, as a desperate atempt to increase framerate.

I’m normally skeptical about features like this. But I find Frame Generation to work extremely well in some games. The older version wasn’t so great and introduced artifacts. Maybe it’s an improvement to the games themselves or an update to DLSS, but whatever the reason it seems to work very nicely now. So much so that I don’t feel the need for a 5090

[scommander2]

Quoted from Nvidia.com for the RTX 50 family:

Due to DLSS4:

So, the family of the RTX 50 can perform faster than RTX 40 family.  

Question:  can DCS run on DLSS4?

[Lange_666]

Current local retail prices for a 4090 here are between 2249 € and 2799 € (depending on the brand and card with a bit of an OC and tad better cooling), a lot higher than the initial MSRP for a 4090 (they moved up from 1899 € to 2300 € two weeks prior to Black Friday and haven't come down since).
So if prices are 20-30% up from those this means 2700 - 2930 € to 3360 - 3640 € for a 5090 in the shop if I take the current local 4090 prices into consideration.

Another thing I have a bit of problem with is the gap between the 5090 and 5080 where the 5080 only has 16GB VRAM and a 960 GB/sec bandwidth where the 5090 has 32GB VRAM and a 1792 GB/sec bandwidth. The 12GB VRAM on my 3080Ti easily gets filled up on more demanding maps so 16GB leaves again no headroom makes me not really interested in anything lower than a 5090. But then the price...