DAS IRST Functionality.

[Hobel]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb Harlikwin:

What Krippz said. IR is maybe your one hope of seeing it. And IR doesn't work thru clouds, plus the F35 is also IR stealthy. So... Basically you are boned. 

yeah i see.

What about new modern ground radars or Awacs?
Now that this door has opened, more modern sams and ground radars should also find their way to DCS ?

[Harlikwin]

1 minute ago, Hobel said:

yeah i see.

What about new modern ground radars or Awacs?
Now that this door has opened, more modern sams and ground radars should also find their way to DCS ?

IDK, maybe. But like they would have to actually model the whole modern battlespace, which well... Not trivial. Considering we don't even really have a 60's level IADS implementation I wouldn't hold your breath. 

Edited January 17 by Harlikwin

[F-2]

https://www.mod.go.jp/atla/research/dts2011/dts2011.files/low_pdf/R6.pdf

2011 radar technology for low observable target.

[FlankerFan35]

2 hours ago, Hobel said:

yes i looked at the numbers again and it seems to be more dramatic than i thought...
the F117 can only be seen in dcs with the F18 from ~20nm and the F35 will probably have even better stealth capabilities...
yes it will not be a fight.

the mission creator could put the pylons on it that you can't remove as a player, that could make up for it. lol

It may be offset a little in this fashion but unless you add the extra pylons for air to ground, my understanding is just adding something like the wingtip pylons for AIM-9Xs still has the F-35s RCS far lower than most if not all 4-4.5th gens.

[NytHawk]

9 hours ago, SEEADLER 111 said:

And how do you shoot something you can't see? Eurofighter hat chance with PIRATE or tranche 4 with AESA radar. Not our HB Eurofighter. 

There were luneberg lenses visible in the 2025 And Beyond video, I feel like these will significantly level out the playing field assuming a scenario in which both aircraft are restricted to AIM-120s. 
Sure the F35 has an LPI AESA which might be almost impossible for the Eurofighters RWR to detect, and its DAS helps massively with situational awareness. However the Eurofighter is objectively kinematically superior, yes, it will be disadvantaged in terms of the radars scan time and with long range passive target detection... but i feel like a fight between both the EF2000 and the F35 in this situation would be mostly fair.

Edited January 17 by NytHawk

[TotenDead]

15 часов назад, SEEADLER 111 сказал:

And how do you shoot something you can't see? Eurofighter hat chance with PIRATE or tranche 4 with AESA radar. Not our HB Eurofighter. 

Do you think that one needs aesa and nothing less to detect a stealth aircraft at decent range? It doesn't work that way, even a planar array will pick it up, it just needs enough power output and sensitivity

 

14 часов назад, FlankerFan35 сказал:

Watch any 5th gen pilot interview talking about doing BVR vs 4th gens (ones with AESA/IRST even) and you'll hear the phrase "Like clubbing baby seals" on repeat.

Of course they say that, they're biased due to... reasons. Swedes have zero LO planes so they say that stealth is overhyped and not that needed. Who is right?

[FlankerFan35]

7 hours ago, TotenDead said:

 

Of course they say that, they're biased due to... reasons. Swedes have zero LO planes so they say that stealth is overhyped and not that needed. Who is right?

Many of these pilots if not most flew 4th gens before flying 5th gens, it's not biased its them stating facts. Saab is well known to be a bit delulu about the Gripen.

[upyr1]

On 1/16/2025 at 6:31 PM, MiG21bisFishbedL said:

Kind of what you want when war fighting.

It wouldn't be ideal for a PVP server out single player or PVE it will be fun 

[mkellytx]

On 1/16/2025 at 5:39 PM, McGherkin said:

Of course, the F-35’s radar is LPI, but like most things, it’s not an ‘on or off’ whether you’ll detect it, it’s how close you can get before it’s detected. I’d argue it’s a capability the F-35 has over the F-22, which needs to emit *something* to be able to hunt. F-35 can go completely passive.

Really?  Av Leak back in the 90's attributed that capability to the Raptor.  I won't confirm nor deny since I've sat in a Raptor cockpit and know people who've flown chase on both (F-22/F-35) and others who served in the Raptor SPO.  I'd love to know where you confirmed that assertion.

Now, the thing Fat Amy has that Raptor doesn't is a lot more CPU cycles, that's useful for a lot of stuff.

[Temetre]

Am 17.1.2025 um 12:31 schrieb NytHawk:

Sure the F35 has an LPI AESA which might be almost impossible for the Eurofighters RWR to detect

I mean we know basically zero about how/when/if an EF-RWR can detect the F35s radar, right? 

We know that its probably more difficult, and thats about it.

[NytHawk]

1 hour ago, Temetre said:

I mean we know basically zero about how/when/if an EF-RWR can detect the F35s radar, right? 

We know that its probably more difficult, and thats about it.

To my knowledge, we don't know too much about either the F35s AESA or the EFs RWR, this is in my opinion the biggest challenge with developing the F35.

[McGherkin]

On 1/18/2025 at 3:51 AM, mkellytx said:

Really?  Av Leak back in the 90's attributed that capability to the Raptor.  I won't confirm nor deny since I've sat in a Raptor cockpit and know people who've flown chase on both (F-22/F-35) and others who served in the Raptor SPO.  I'd love to know where you confirmed that assertion.

Now, the thing Fat Amy has that Raptor doesn't is a lot more CPU cycles, that's useful for a lot of things.

 

I think you may have misunderstood - the F-35 and F-22 both have AESAs with LPI capability, but the F-22, as far as I’ve seen publicly, isn’t blessed with an IRST capability other than its MWS system, which is much more basic than DAS. The USAF is looking to integrate DAS onto the F-22 as a result of the F-35’s performance so it’s evidently a desirable capability.

[mkellytx]

3 hours ago, McGherkin said:

 

I think you may have misunderstood - the F-35 and F-22 both have AESAs with LPI capability, but the F-22, as far as I’ve seen publicly, isn’t blessed with an IRST capability other than its MWS system, which is much more basic than DAS. The USAF is looking to integrate DAS onto the F-22 as a result of the F-35’s performance so it’s evidently a desirable capability.

I did misunderstand you, that said on the IRST, the F-22 was originally planned to have one.  Back in the 90's I worked on a maintenance trainer contract for the F-22 and saw the engineering drawings with it on them.  Sadly, like the cheek radar arrays it was cut for cost savings.

[NytHawk]

9 hours ago, mkellytx said:

I did misunderstand you, that said on the IRST, the F-22 was originally planned to have one.  Back in the 90's I worked on a maintenance trainer contract for the F-22 and saw the engineering drawings with it on them.  Sadly, like the cheek radar arrays it was cut for cost savings.

A few months back there were F22s spotted with these mysterious pods near Edwards AFB, many have speculated these to be IRST, or some form of sensor pods.

[mkellytx]

On 1/19/2025 at 11:43 PM, NytHawk said:

A few months back there were F22s spotted with these mysterious pods near Edwards AFB, many have speculated these to be IRST, or some form of sensor pods.

The IRST was originally under the nose, there are images online if you look for them.  A lot's been written about those pods and what they are.

[NytHawk]

Talking about F22 IRST… this just dropped.