Mission 3 and dropping on a steerpoint not happening as I thought.

[ouseler]

I know in Mission 3 there are (2) stationary SA-2 sites that I can drop on through the clouds.  However, when I selected the steerpoint and dropped the bomb, it hit nowhere near the intended target.  I had a break in the clouds for one of them and was able to get the TGP on it and made a successful drop on that site.  

I went below the clouds to acquire the second SA-2.  Bad idea; I got jumped by an SA-8 and didn't survive.  

My question is: Can I drop on a steerpoint or do I have to make it a Markpoint to get SOI?

[ChillNG]

6 hours ago, ouseler said:

I know in Mission 3 there are (2) stationary SA-2 sites that I can drop on through the clouds.  However, when I selected the steerpoint and dropped the bomb, it hit nowhere near the intended target.  I had a break in the clouds for one of them and was able to get the TGP on it and made a successful drop on that site.  

I went below the clouds to acquire the second SA-2.  Bad idea; I got jumped by an SA-8 and didn't survive.  

My question is: Can I drop on a steerpoint or do I have to make it a Markpoint to get SOI?

Use the steer point to cue your tgp, then tms up to send the target position to the weapon, that should be all you need to do.

Dropping below the cloud should be ok, just don't do it near any of the airbases, make sure you're in the Sead lane.

Edited February 4 by ChillNG

[PawlaczGMD]

7 hours ago, ouseler said:

I know in Mission 3 there are (2) stationary SA-2 sites that I can drop on through the clouds.  However, when I selected the steerpoint and dropped the bomb, it hit nowhere near the intended target.  I had a break in the clouds for one of them and was able to get the TGP on it and made a successful drop on that site.  

I went below the clouds to acquire the second SA-2.  Bad idea; I got jumped by an SA-8 and didn't survive.  

My question is: Can I drop on a steerpoint or do I have to make it a Markpoint to get SOI?

The Viper INS+GPS has modelled errors, in practice you cannot drop blind on steerpoints even with JDAMs, as they work in relative coordinates mode. You always need a sensor track to be precise - until they change something.

[ouseler]

I dropped on steerpoint 9 making sure the TGP cued over to it and then TMS up.  But the bomb fell a good mile short.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong.  

Background:  When the SA-6 appears during the initial sweep.  I went below the clouds and got a TGP fix on it.  Then I asked the wingman to take a HARM shot.  When the SA-6 shutdown, I rushed in and dropped on it.  Somehow, I didn't hit.  Anyway, I un-designated the SA-6 on the HAD screen with TMS down.  Selected Steerpoint 9, but the target designator box in the HUD wasn't even close to Steerpoint 9.  I backed off to Steerpoint 8 then back on to Steerpoint 9 again.  This time it seemed to appear to be on Steerpoint 9, but the clouds make this impossible to verify.  I run in and drop the bomb and it is nowhere close.  I am getting frustrated with investing so much time to get there and coming up short on the SA-2 drops.  

How do I verify that the bomb is targeted on the Steerpoint?

[ChillNG]

1 hour ago, ouseler said:

I dropped on steerpoint 9 making sure the TGP cued over to it and then TMS up.  But the bomb fell a good mile short.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong.  

Background:  When the SA-6 appears during the initial sweep.  I went below the clouds and got a TGP fix on it.  Then I asked the wingman to take a HARM shot.  When the SA-6 shutdown, I rushed in and dropped on it.  Somehow, I didn't hit.  Anyway, I un-designated the SA-6 on the HAD screen with TMS down.  Selected Steerpoint 9, but the target designator box in the HUD wasn't even close to Steerpoint 9.  I backed off to Steerpoint 8 then back on to Steerpoint 9 again.  This time it seemed to appear to be on Steerpoint 9, but the clouds make this impossible to verify.  I run in and drop the bomb and it is nowhere close.  I am getting frustrated with investing so much time to get there and coming up short on the SA-2 drops.  

How do I verify that the bomb is targeted on the Steerpoint?

Are you cursing zeroing after targeting the SA-6?  Sounds like you're not clearing the offset in the target pod from what you described.

There is no way to verify you're on target without seeing where the pod is looking, you've just got to be super confident in your process to drop through the cloud.  It can be done and is certainly an option, but I wouldn't do it personally.  There are enough gaps in the cloud that you can maneuver to get an angle to view the target and there's enough space beneath to drop below as well if you need to.  Also be sure your CBU has been properly aligned before dropping.

If you have any more trouble free free to post a track and I'll happily watch it through and see if I can give any more pointers.

[ouseler]

Hey thanks, I'll try that and let you know how it goes.

[ouseler]

Well, I flew the mission once again and got all three stationary targets.  I ignored the SA-6 going in and just concentrated on my stationary targets.  I bombed the airbase SA-2 thinking I didn't hit it because my wingman did not say anything.  But when I dropped on it again, I say that I did hit it the first time.  So that meant I had no bombs left.  The SA-6 popped up again and I told my wingman to hit with HARMs.  But he did nothing.  I repeatedly told my wingman to hit the SA-6, again nothing.  So I had to go in and attempt to strafe it, but crashed. 

I am beyond frustrated with this mission.  

[ChillNG]

40 minutes ago, ouseler said:

Well, I flew the mission once again and got all three stationary targets.  I ignored the SA-6 going in and just concentrated on my stationary targets.  I bombed the airbase SA-2 thinking I didn't hit it because my wingman did not say anything.  But when I dropped on it again, I say that I did hit it the first time.  So that meant I had no bombs left.  The SA-6 popped up again and I told my wingman to hit with HARMs.  But he did nothing.  I repeatedly told my wingman to hit the SA-6, again nothing.  So I had to go in and attempt to strafe it, but crashed. 

I am beyond frustrated with this mission.  

So if it helps...there is an immortal option for a reason, no need to get yourself so frustrated over a single mission.  The missions are also very flexible and robust in how they react to your performance, if you can't kill a SAM and the strike is called off then so be it, you all live to fight another day and move onto the next mission, you can always revisit it later to go for a higher score.

I suspect you did something wrong when asking the wingman to engage with a HARM, when you make this request then the option to do so will be removed, and there will also be a failsafe trigger that will deal with the SAM should the AI go rogue.  If you managed to make the request multiple times I wonder if you mistakenly used the F2 wingman menu?  

There's a play through on YouTube that Connos has done, could also help.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8 by ChillNG

[ouseler]

FINALLY!!!!  The wingman did his job this time.  I kept it high looking through the breaks in the clouds.  I had the wingman fire a HARM at the SA-6 on the way in.  He said that it went dark and thought it shutdown.  So I knew I needed to keep a CBU.  Got done with my runs on the stationary targets and turned my attention to the SA-6.  I over flew the area a few times and could not get it to turn on.  So I went below the clouds and found that it was dead.  The HARM shot got it.  It's one of the most challenging missions I have flown.  The clouds really complicate things.  Thanks for your help.  Sorry I was so whiny.  

Edited February 8 by ouseler

[ChillNG]

7 hours ago, ouseler said:

FINALLY!!!!  The wingman did his job this time.  I kept it high looking through the breaks in the clouds.  I had the wingman fire a HARM at the SA-6 on the way in.  He said that it went dark and thought it shutdown.  So I knew I needed to keep a CBU.  Got done with my runs on the stationary targets and turned my attention to the SA-6.  I over flew the area a few times and could not get it to turn on.  So I went below the clouds and found that it was dead.  The HARM shot got it.  It's one of the most challenging missions I have flown.  The clouds really complicate things.  Thanks for your help.  Sorry I was so whiny.  

No problem, glad you got through it!

[gunhead9]

Sorry man, I'm frustrated (as I was with several missions in FIWOS1).

Mission 3: It's unacceptable that you have to fly these long missions a few times before you get it right – or read about it here in the forum. Two HARMS aren't enough. Five minutes until the package needs to make a decision, and every target below the cloud cover has to be precisely targeted first, just so the SA-8 can shoot you down.

The cluster bomb is wrong for this job. I find it rather unrealistic.

And by the way: I only understand half of the voiceovers (except for Forest). I have to read them all over again. The radio messages are far too unclear.

[ChillNG]

18 hours ago, gunhead9 said:

Sorry man, I'm frustrated (as I was with several missions in FIWOS1).

Mission 3: It's unacceptable that you have to fly these long missions a few times before you get it right – or read about it here in the forum. Two HARMS aren't enough. Five minutes until the package needs to make a decision, and every target below the cloud cover has to be precisely targeted first, just so the SA-8 can shoot you down.

The cluster bomb is wrong for this job. I find it rather unrealistic.

And by the way: I only understand half of the voiceovers (except for Forest). I have to read them all over again. The radio messages are far too unclear.

The CBU is a guided weapon, and CBUs are often the weapons of choice for destroying a SAM site, so on that I will disagree.

The SA-8 on mission 3 need ever be a factor, if you're in it's MEZ then you've allowed yourself to get dragged out of position, keeping good SA is part of the challenge in all my missions.

As for the mission difficulty, sorry you feel that way.  I take a great deal of time and effort to build missions that can be completed in multiple ways and allow you to fail any objective and still complete them.  There is also the option to make yourself immortal if you feel you require it.  There is never any requirement to be playing missions multiple times unless you are targeting the max score.   This is why there is a score system, if you want to achieve max score on every mission then yes this can be challenging but this is by design.

If you want any specific pointers then please let me know.

 

 

[pierscockey]

I just finished M3, and whilst I think I hit my targets (haven’t checked Tacview yet) we’d run out of weapons when the 5 min call came in so I chose to abort the mission and RTB.  Still scored 85. Would’ve been nice to let the strike happen, but these things happen IRL so feel happy to move on to the next mission.  
 

@ChillNG - thanks for doing such a great job.  The ATC/ground comms are outstanding.  Wish DCS had this by default.  

Edited June 8 by pierscockey

[ChillNG]

4 hours ago, pierscockey said:

I just finished M3, and whilst I think I hit my targets (haven’t checked Tacview yet) we’d run out of weapons when the 5 min call came in so I chose to abort the mission and RTB.  Still scored 85. Would’ve been nice to let the strike happen, but these things happen IRL so feel happy to move on to the next mission.  
 

@ChillNG - thanks for doing such a great job.  The ATC/ground comms are outstanding.  Wish DCS had this by default.  

Thanks, glad you enjoy them!