twistking Posted February 5 Posted February 5 (edited) Floodlight It appears to me that the cockpit floodlight is broken. I'm not sure, but it looks like the cockpit would only show specular reflections, but would miss diffuse reflection. Maybe it's something else, but i can say for sure that it doesn't look natural and doesn't really light up the cockpit in a meaningful way. The actual floodlights/lamps objects (in the back of the cockpit) don't visibly light up, if you turn on the floodlight. Instrument/Console backlight The instrument backlight is very bright even on lowest setting. This is subjective, as i don't know how it's supposed to be, but i do find it so bright that it makes it difficult to read certain instrument at night. I would assume that there is a bit more range on the possible brightness settings in reality. Edited February 5 by twistking 1 1 My improved* wishlist after a decade with DCS *now with 17% more wishes compared to the original
Bucic Posted February 5 Posted February 5 Floodlight #2 They don't turn on or they don't give adequate flood lighting to the cockpit. If the first, then try to manipulate the lighting knobs on the right console. F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
twistking Posted February 5 Author Posted February 5 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Bucic said: Floodlight #2 They don't turn on or they don't give adequate flood lighting to the cockpit. If the first, then try to manipulate the lighting knobs on the right console. I mean that when you turn around, you can actually see the lamps in the back of the cockpit (or what i assume are the lamps). These should glow, when they are on (if they are indeed visible light lamps and not something else entirely in which case i would be a tiny little bit embarrassed ). Edited February 5 by twistking My improved* wishlist after a decade with DCS *now with 17% more wishes compared to the original
Bucic Posted February 6 Posted February 6 (edited) OK, time to join in. I planned on making my own issue report but it seems our observations overlap. So, in the order from specific (1A through 1C) to general with regard to deep night cockpit lighting 1A. Knobs and switches on the side left and right consoles are invisible in dark night conditions while in reality the mere ambient light that the panel backlight give out would be enought to light them. The darker the night, the clearer the phenomenon. 1B. Knobs and switches should even more so be visible in the presence of dedicated ambient lighting in use anywhere in the cockpit. 1C. Not a single cockpit component should be anywhere close to invisible at night unless in an outright shadow. If anyone intends to insist on blinding effects, let's be real here. This sort of mechanism can only be achieved once the overall cockpit lighting is sorted and even then it will remain highly debatable due to the differences between accomodation of a real eye in such an environment and the perception in a display-player setup. 2. The left and right consoles seem to be barely affected by cockpit ambiet lighting overall. I know all GPU coding is cheating but the F-5E side panels seem to have gotten the dirty end of the stick. They seem to have "affected by ambient lighting" attribute "not enabled." 3. The two ambient behind-the-ear lamps are non-functional. They do light up and blind the player if in the field of view being 100% white but don't give any meaningful lighting effects to the cockpit panels, consoles etc. For starters, here's a full video recording of one of my test flights. I've done several sessions in that particular IA night flight Caucasus mission. Sometime later I'm going to include a track file. Additionally, here's a photo of a real F-5E panel with backlight on, 100% brightness. On 9/12/2024 at 9:51 PM, Bucic said: The damaged connector was easier to repair than I thought. I don't need the back lighting but I felt obliged to revive it fully. A banana with no back lighting for scale. In reality the light is more of a bright orange and has more contrast at the same time. EDIT: DCS gets it absolutely spot-on as it is indescernable in full daylight. ... EDIT: Track file attached. SPECS Gamma 2.1-2.2 LG 27GP850 27" 1440p IPS 165 Hz G-Sync 108.79 PPI 16:9 (1.78:1) RTX 2070 MSI Ventus 8GB Intel Core i3-12100F Windows 10 bug F-5E REM cockpit ambient light 2025-02-06.trk dcs - Copy 2025-01-06 bug F-5E REM cockpit ambient light.log Edited February 7 by Bucic track file 1 1 F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
twistking Posted February 7 Author Posted February 7 17 hours ago, Bucic said: OK, time to join in. I planned on making my own issue report but it seems our observations overlap. So, in the order from specific (1A through 1C) to general with regard to deep night cockpit lighting Yes, i think our findings overlap. Your report is more detailed though, so thanks for posting it! I wonder if all could be explained by the cockpit not displaying diffuse reflections and GI from cockpit light sources. I would have to check again, but perhaps my subjective notion of instruments being too bright is also more about the contrast between the lit instruments and the dark surrounding. Anyway, it's extremely obvious that something is objectively wrong here and it should not need us to figure it out. I assume that internally it is just WIP. Would be nice to let the customers know though. My improved* wishlist after a decade with DCS *now with 17% more wishes compared to the original
twistking Posted February 19 Author Posted February 19 *bump* Can we get this acknowledged please? 1 My improved* wishlist after a decade with DCS *now with 17% more wishes compared to the original
Flappie Posted February 19 Posted February 19 If you could find some good pictures (or footage) of a real F-5E backlit cockpit, I'd be happy to show this to devs. ---
Flappie Posted February 19 Posted February 19 I've found a first video, but not much is illumimated in it: We need better source material. ---
twistking Posted February 19 Author Posted February 19 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Flappie said: If you could find some good pictures (or footage) of a real F-5E backlit cockpit, I'd be happy to show this to devs. The issue with the cockpit being not correctly illuminated by the floodlight does not need real world footage, i hope. Properties of light are generally consistent in the physical world. The cockpit of the F-5 in DCS does not react to light as one would expect though. To reproduce, do a flight a night (no moon) decrease and increase the brightness of the cockpit floodlight (right console) and observe how the cockpit materials react. Also observe the Global Illumination (or lack thereof)! My opinion on the instrument backlight on the other hand is more subjective. Backlit instruments are hard to read and the brightness control does not have a meaningful effect on backlight brightness. I assume that this is not realistic, but i accept that this is a subjective statement, as i don't have any experience with the real F-5. The floodlight on the other hand behaves objectively wrong. Full stop. I just put those two issues in the same bug report, because i assumed they were somehow related. ps: There is another bug report about indicator light being too bright and not reacting to brt/dim switch. This may be related to instrument backlight being too bright?! Edited February 19 by twistking 1 1 My improved* wishlist after a decade with DCS *now with 17% more wishes compared to the original
Flappie Posted February 22 Posted February 22 I found some good but very short footage of the backlighting. I'll try to find more videos to show to devs. 1 ---
Bucic Posted February 22 Posted February 22 @FlappieYoFlappieYoFlappieYoFlappie (the forum engine doesn't like Firefox) Backlighting or flood lighting? Please keep in mind I have a real panel with backlight in working order in case the devs would like to see it in some specific conditions. 1 F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
Flappie Posted February 22 Posted February 22 34 minutes ago, Bucic said: @FlappieYoFlappieYoFlappieYoFlappie (the forum engine doesn't like Firefox) Backlighting or flood lighting? Please keep in mind I have a real panel with backlight in working order in case the devs would like to see it in some specific conditions. I'm interested in perfecting both as long as I find good reference material of the real F-5E. You do have a real F-5E panel, or you built one from scratch? I want to see it anyway, but for the sake of reporting to devs, I need the real thing of course. 1 ---
Bucic Posted February 22 Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Flappie said: I'm interested in perfecting both as long as I find good reference material of the real F-5E. You do have a real F-5E panel, or you built one from scratch? I want to see it anyway, but for the sake of reporting to devs, I need the real thing of course. Reel2Real real It's the weapon's panel from a real F-5E, although it's the version with top-right corner cutout for an ejection handle. It's got all the factory part number designations and date codes visible, even the exact manufacturer. F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
twistking Posted February 22 Author Posted February 22 @Bucic since this is narrowing in on the instrument backlights, maybe it would be good to open a separate report for the floodlight issue, which i think is even more severe. I would do it, but can you confirm that the latest patch did not change it? I did not yet have time to test since the update... My improved* wishlist after a decade with DCS *now with 17% more wishes compared to the original
Bucic Posted February 22 Posted February 22 3 hours ago, twistking said: @Bucic since this is narrowing in on the instrument backlights, maybe it would be good to open a separate report for the floodlight issue, which i think is even more severe. I would do it, but can you confirm that the latest patch did not change it? I did not yet have time to test since the update... I don't think it is narrowing down on backlights and if anything it's the backlights that should get a separate thread The lack of flood light effect is far more jarring so I'd bombard this first. And since the lighting groups interact with each other I'm all for letting the thread run free. The first posts have set the outline well, in case anyone gets lost. Most importantly it seems the feedback channel (issues-mods-devs-updates) works better than ever for the F-5E. F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
twistking Posted February 22 Author Posted February 22 3 minutes ago, Bucic said: I don't think it is narrowing down on backlights and if anything it's the backlights that should get a separate thread The lack of flood light effect is far more jarring so I'd bombard this first. And since the lighting groups interact with each other I'm all for letting the thread run free. The first posts have set the outline well, in case anyone gets lost. Most importantly it seems the feedback channel (issues-mods-devs-updates) works better than ever for the F-5E. Fair enough. Glad i'm not the only one who finds the broken floodlight extremely jarring. My improved* wishlist after a decade with DCS *now with 17% more wishes compared to the original
Flappie Posted February 23 Posted February 23 I just cannot reproduce your issue with flood lights. With flood lights to the max, it's almost daytime in my cockpit even in a moonless night (Remastered F-5E). I've just watched @Bucic's video and now I understand what you two are talking about. The flood lights on the back appear white when they should be bright yellow. And they should emit light just like in the picture above. You guys should check your mods and/or try a DCS cleanup and repair. 1 ---
twistking Posted February 23 Author Posted February 23 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Flappie said: I just cannot reproduce your issue with flood lights. With flood lights to the max, it's almost daytime in my cockpit even in a moonless night (Remastered F-5E). I've just watched @Bucic's video and now I understand what you two are talking about. The flood lights on the back appear white when they should be bright yellow. And they should emit light just like in the picture above. You guys should check your mods and/or try a DCS cleanup and repair. Thanks for posting that picture. This is not how it looked on my end. Maybe it was quietly patched (haven't tested since patch) or it was a shader problem. I don't run any mods, but will now delete fxo/metashaders and run a steam file verification before playing next time. Yes, the actual floodlight lamps (behind pilot's head) should also be visibly "on" when you look at them. I thought those issues were related, but maybe they are not. Edited February 23 by twistking My improved* wishlist after a decade with DCS *now with 17% more wishes compared to the original
Flappie Posted February 23 Posted February 23 14 minutes ago, twistking said: Yes, the actual floodlight lamps (behind pilot's head) should also be visibly "on" when you look at them. I thought those issues were related, but maybe they are not. What I meant is they are bright yellow on my end. You two clearly have the same issue and you need to find what it is. Clearing shader cache is a good idea too. The next time you report visual issues, please attach screenshots in OP. ---
twistking Posted February 24 Author Posted February 24 (edited) 4 hours ago, Flappie said: What I meant is they are bright yellow on my end. You two clearly have the same issue and you need to find what it is. Clearing shader cache is a good idea too. The next time you report visual issues, please attach screenshots in OP. I just tested with the new patch and could not reproduce my issues, even without deleting fxo/metashaders first. Floodlight works correctly now. Also the BRT/DIM switch now does something. I suspect those things were quiet fixed without patch notes. I'm still not happy with how the backlight looks though. It's now more usable with brightness control working properly, but still does not look very convincing, especially if you compare it to your videos posted above. In DCS the backlight is too even. It should be more directional and probably also warmer in colour. Ideally colour would change with brightness (assuming it's incandescent light). Edited February 24 by twistking 1 My improved* wishlist after a decade with DCS *now with 17% more wishes compared to the original
Bucic Posted February 24 Posted February 24 @Flappie I clear metashaders, fxo and system shader cache (disk cleanup - check Shader Cache) at least before every update. I haven't updated since the beginning of February so I'm going to update and test it today or tomorrow. Next time you jump into F-5E please take a shot of the vicinity of the trim and CM panels with zero flood setting and full backlight brightness, in moonless conditions as you had in the shot you posted above. Weird stuff! F-5E simpit cockpit dimensions and flight controls Kill the Bloom - shader glow mod Poor audio Doppler effect in DCS [bug] Trees - huge performance hit especially up close
Flappie Posted February 24 Posted February 24 Here's a video (made in Release) and a track. F-5e night.trk ---
Flappie Posted March 2 Posted March 2 (edited) I've just found a very good source: https://virtualpanorama.ch/luftfahrt/ (click on the fifth thumbnail from left to right) Edited March 2 by Flappie 1 1 ---
VPS_Choki Posted March 2 Posted March 2 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Flappie said: I've just found a very good source: https://virtualpanorama.ch/luftfahrt/ (click on the fifth thumbnail from left to right) https://www.mediathek.admin.ch/media/vr/611e02ed-3dfd-4d51-827f-38f6d31acf19 here is a high resolution 360 view sadly not at night light but it prob helps anyway Edited March 2 by VPS_Choki 1
Bob1943 Posted March 4 Posted March 4 Those are good pictures to use in correcting the lighting transparency in the landing gear handle in the Re-Mastered F-5. Hope ED will take note of those and make the change.
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