A discussion of how much EW content we can get based on publicly available information

[rocaf2003]

Since ED began to announce the production of F35, I have been looking up some difficulties about the production of F35 almost every day. I think it is not completely hopeless that ED can produce some EW content; Through the integration of various materials in the past two weeks, I have obtained some working logic of F35 IEWS EA:Like the ALQ184 on the F16CM, the IEWS performs an electronic attack in a highly automated manner: the ASQ239 detects the enemy radar signal and geocalizes it with high precision, transmitting the location data to the APG81, which then performs electronic jamming based on that location data.Noise jamming is used to physically destroy the enemy radar receiving equipment (destroy the LNA), Deception jamming is used to interfere with the enemy radar by providing false target information.If the enemy radar band is low or outside the jamming Angle of the APG81, the ASQ239's built-in antennas perform jamming (due to the size of these antennas, they can only perform self-protect jamming).The whole process is highly automated and the pilot does not need to do anything. The core function of the entire system is that the aircraft can automatically pinpoint enemy radar via RWR(APG-81 MFA/ASQ239 ESM receiver) and control the ECM system(APG-81 MFA/ASQ239 jamming transmiter) to conduct targeted electronic attacks (ECM interference) based on this location data, which is very practical, it saves a lot of jamming energy, and makes it possible to physically destroy enemy radar receiving equipment by jamming noise.

The aircraft might able to determine when and in what mode (SP/EA) and how (ASQ239 antenna /MFA) to interfere by the pilot's setting of some TWD options,which may be related to the "OPER" symbol at the top of the TWD page (similar to the ECM PWR switch on the F16?) and the "SEP" symbol at the bottom (toggle EA/SP?).   The "INIT" symbol displayed in the TWD thumbnail may represent a working state that interferes with the system (perhaps initiated?    Similar to the green ECM ENBL light on F16?)    As for the "COOL" symbol, I really don't know what it might mean...

Edited February 9 by rocaf2003

[NytHawk]

  On 2/9/2025 at 2:10 PM, rocaf2003 said:

 As for the "COOL" symbol, I really don't know what it might mean...

 

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It could be displaying the cooling state of the DAS sensors? Not sure.

[rocaf2003]

  On 2/11/2025 at 2:14 AM, NytHawk said:

It could be displaying the cooling state of the DAS sensors? Not sure.

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The COOL symbol was used on previous USAF aircraft to represent the cooling of AIM9X. This means that when COOL appears, the weapon is ready and ready to fire. From this point of view, it may represent a state of ECM launch readiness?like the green A that appears on the button on the F16 ECM panel.

[Pilum]

To answer the question in the OP, “how much EW content we can get based on publicly available information”, this will be close to 0 %.

Because everything about the EW for the F-35 is still top secret and will be for the foreseeable future.

And this is the problem with “simulation” modeling of any in-service aircraft, and not just the F-35: The information you need to model the radar and EW with anything approaching realism is still classified and will inevitably result in a game- and not a simulation-model.

I worked for more than 10 years in the defense industry with EW for fighter aircraft and my sig has not been chosen at random. 

[Hobel]

  On 3/19/2025 at 9:45 AM, Pilum said:

To answer the question in the OP, “how much EW content we can get based on publicly available information”, this will be close to 0 %.

Because everything about the EW for the F-35 is still top secret and will be for the foreseeable future.

And this is the problem with “simulation” modeling of any in-service aircraft, and not just the F-35: The information you need to model the radar and EW with anything approaching realism is still classified and will inevitably result in a game- and not a simulation-model.

I worked for more than 10 years in the defense industry with EW for fighter aircraft and my sig has not been chosen at random. 

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And reasonable assumptions and suppositions based on public knowledge on the subject of EW. It doesn't have to work exactly like IRL on aircraft XY.

Just continue the known concepts and the more modern the more efficient.

Other games/sims already do it this way to some extent, even if it's not perfect, the scope is unfortunately already more complex than is currently the case with DCS.

 

 

 

[BIGNEWY]

  On 3/19/2025 at 9:45 AM, Pilum said:

To answer the question in the OP, “how much EW content we can get based on publicly available information”, this will be close to 0 %.

Because everything about the EW for the F-35 is still top secret and will be for the foreseeable future.

And this is the problem with “simulation” modeling of any in-service aircraft, and not just the F-35: The information you need to model the radar and EW with anything approaching realism is still classified and will inevitably result in a game- and not a simulation-model.

I worked for more than 10 years in the defense industry with EW for fighter aircraft and my sig has not been chosen at random. 

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We will only use publicly available information for anything we do in DCS, and while we endeavour to be as real as possible DCS is a for entertainment product, it is worth remembering that. 

[EchoOneOne]

  On 3/19/2025 at 11:30 AM, BIGNEWY said:

We will only use publicly available information for anything we do in DCS, and while we endeavour to be as real as possible DCS is a for entertainment product, it is worth remembering that. 

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Why didn't you use publicly available information for modeling SPJs in F-16C?

[BIGNEWY]

  On 3/19/2025 at 11:34 AM, EchoOneOne said:

Why didn't you use publicly available information for modeling SPJs in F-16C?

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please dont derail this thread, if you think there is a problem feel free to pm me 

[BIGNEWY]

EDIT: Just to add EW is something we want to improve in DCS, including SPJ but wont happen just yet, it will take time. 

[NineLine]

Let's make sure we keep this topic on the F-35A here, thanks!

[Muchocracker]

There's plenty of literature out there in radar and Electronic Warfare theory textbooks to do "first principle" approaches for many of the EA and EP techniques, they're not hard to find. You can do many of the deception jamming modes like Barrage, Spot, Cover Pulse, RG/VGPO, Range and Range/Doppler MFT, Inverse Gain, and AGC Capture without getting too close to the sun on classified material.

The challenge is you need to completely overhaul the radar modelling to truly simulate most of these. ED is on the way there, but it's still a long way to go. 

Edited Saturday at 12:33 AM by Muchocracker