AMD Radeon RX 9000 series GPUs

[Qcumber]

If the overclock potential for the Rx 9070xt is as good as the 7800xt then performance could equal the rtx 5080 FE base performance.

Estimated based on information from tech-power-up reviews and the official AMD performance presentation. 

Starting point is an assumption that the  FPS of a factory OC version of the Rx 9070 xt at 4k is similar to rtx 5070 ti (85 FPS). Overclocking results for the Rx 7800 xt range was about 13-15%. If this translates to the Rx 9070xt then it could give 96-97 FPS. Baseline performance for the rtx 5080 FE is 96.7 FPS. 

I hope this is the case

[Nightdare]

13 hours ago, Qcumber said:

Starting point is an assumption that the  FPS of a factory OC version of the Rx 9070 xt at 4k is similar to rtx 5070 ti (85 FPS). Overclocking results for the Rx 7800 xt range was about 13-15%. If this translates to the Rx 9070xt then it could give 96-97 FPS. Baseline performance for the rtx 5080 FE is 96.7 FPS. 

I hope this is the case

 

Seems more like wishful thinking

Comparing a 9070xt to a 5070ti while that can be overclocked as well, then thinking it will reach the next tier

 

...sure, maybe if that 5080 is missing rops

[sirrah]

Sorry for this slightly off-topic side step (I didn't want to raise a whole new thread for what's probably just stupid questions that have been repeated here many times  )

1. If I Googled it correctly , at the moment DCS does not support ray tracing. I'm not sure if there are plans to support it in the future, but let's say there aren't: Looking at performance/costs graphs, don't the Radeon cards offer much more bang for buck? I understand if money isn't a problem, you just buy the fastest Nvidia card out there, but cost/performance wise, looking only at DCS, isn't it obvious that Radeon cards are a much better choice these days? Or am I missing something crucial here that Nvidia has for DCS, that AMD doesn't?

 

2. What are your expectations on performance of the 9070xt vs 7900xtx when looking solely at DCS? Does DCS lean heavy on VRAM perhaps? (which would then favor the 7900xtx)

I can imagine the 7900xtx might be dropping in price a bit when the 9070 releases (but perhaps that's just wishfull thinking)

 

(My system is getting really old and now my Reverb G1 cable also died on me, so I might have to bite the bullet soonish if I want to keep plaing DCS)

Edited March 4 by sirrah

[Qcumber]

1 hour ago, Nightdare said:

Seems more like wishful thinking

Very much so 

Just managed to get a 5070ti from Amazon for £799 which was very unexpected so given that this is DLSS4 etc I think this will suit me better than rx9070 xt. Good OC potential. 

[MAXsenna]

1 hour ago, sirrah said:

am I missing something crucial here that Nvidia has for DCS, that AMD doesn't?

DLSS/DLAA. I've completely stopped using MSAA. Only DLAA for me now. Adequate performance on my upcoming teenager with my secondhand 2080Ti. No more shimmering, crisp image. No smearing that I can see. 

[Qcumber]

36 minutes ago, MAXsenna said:

DLSS/DLAA. I've completely stopped using MSAA. Only DLAA for me now. Adequate performance on my upcoming teenager with my secondhand 2080Ti. No more shimmering, crisp image. No smearing that I can see. 

Offtopic but I'm still finding some ghosting issues with DLSS/DLAA. That's why I was considering the rx9070xt. Similar performance to a 5070ti (according to AMD) but cheaper. Plus I couldn't get hold of a 5070ti and didn't want to wait months. I am now hoping that DLSS will continue to improve. 

[LucShep]

11 hours ago, sirrah said:

Sorry for this slightly off-topic side step (I didn't want to raise a whole new thread for what's probably just stupid questions that have been repeated here many times  )

1. If I Googled it correctly , at the moment DCS does not support ray tracing. I'm not sure if there are plans to support it in the future, but let's say there aren't: Looking at performance/costs graphs, don't the Radeon cards offer much more bang for buck? I understand if money isn't a problem, you just buy the fastest Nvidia card out there, but cost/performance wise, looking only at DCS, isn't it obvious that Radeon cards are a much better choice these days? Or am I missing something crucial here that Nvidia has for DCS, that AMD doesn't?

 

2. What are your expectations on performance of the 9070xt vs 7900xtx when looking solely at DCS? Does DCS lean heavy on VRAM perhaps? (which would then favor the 7900xtx)

I can imagine the 7900xtx might be dropping in price a bit when the 9070 releases (but perhaps that's just wishfull thinking)

 

(My system is getting really old and now my Reverb G1 cable also died on me, so I might have to bite the bullet soonish if I want to keep plaing DCS)

Basically, and overall, the AMD RX9070/XT are supposed to be direct alternatives (at lower prices) to the more expensive Nvidia RTX 5070/Ti and also RTX4070/Ti Super (prices on these also went up recently).

The upcoming AMD RX9070XT 16GB is supposedly as fast (if not faster) than the previous RX7900XT 20GB, possibly closer to the previous RX7900XTX 24GB flagship.
Rumoured to be as fast as an Nvidia RTX4080 and RTX5070Ti in rasterization (so, if no upscaler is involved).
The in-depth reviews from the usual tech experts will be out tomorrow (March 5th), so we'll see how it pans out.

The two unknowns I see for DCS, yet to be clarified, is 1) how it works for VR and 2) if 16GB VRAM becomes short for the most demanding modules+maps combos in MP.

Both RX7900XT 20GB and RX7900XTX 24GB of previous generation will remain as excelent options for 2D (non-VR) users, even at 4K resolution.
But, while valid, they're not as good in VR as Nvidia's counterparts.
There's also the issue of FSR, which is far less efficient as an upscaler, with inferior image quality (compared to Nvidia's DLSS and Intel's XeSS). So, one has to rely on MSAA when using these models. 

The new RX9000 GPU series will feature an all new and exclusive FSR4 upscaler algorithm (not available for previous GPUs) that is supposed to be a monumental improvement, but ED will need to update the old FSR version in-game. Until that happens, DCS users will still have to rely on MSAA with these new GPUs.
 

Edited March 4 by LucShep

[Aapje]

GamersNexus pretty much told us that it is very close to the 7900 XT, so I would not assume that it will reach XTX levels (without very hard overclocking).

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, Aapje said:

GamersNexus pretty much told us that it is very close to the 7900 XT, so I would not assume that it will reach XTX levels (without very hard overclocking).

Best case, it falls somewhere in between 7900XT and XTX for few $100 less. 

We will know in less than 24hrs.

[LucShep]

TBH, what I'm concerned about are the real prices, if AMD RDNA4 turns out to be competitive as some hint they are. 

The recent launch of Intel B580 turned out as a disaster in pricing, due to scalping. The AIB custom models of new Nvidia RTX5000 series are all with super inflated prices.

There's plenty good AIB custom models of RX 9070 and 9070XT, but not sure how much they'll go for, given the $549 and $599 MSRP that AMD gives to their reference models.
And if scalpers have their way........... 

I just hope that, for once, there's a GPU launch that finally goes good, performance and price wise, and not yet another blow to PC gaming and tech.
Especially for those that have been patiently waiting for an upgrade to a new GPU, it's time to have it right.
 

Edited March 5 by LucShep

[EightyDuce]

42 minutes ago, LucShep said:

TBH, what I'm concerned about are the real prices, if AMD RDNA4 turns out to be competitive as some hint they are. 

The recent launch of Intel B580 turned out as a disaster in pricing, due to scalping. The AIB custom models of new Nvidia RTX5000 series are all with super inflated prices.

There's plenty good AIB custom models of RX 9070 and 9070XT, but not sure how much they'll go for, given the $549 and $599 MSRP that AMD gives to their reference models.
And if scalpers have their way........... 

I just hope that, for once, there's a GPU launch that finally goes good, performance and price wise, and not yet another blow to PC gaming and tech.
Especially for those that have been patiently waiting for an upgrade to a new GPU, it's time to have it right.
 

Hopefully the rumors regarding retailers stockpiling 9070(XT) since December are true and there is enough initial stock to keep things in check. 

[EightyDuce]

We're a few hours away....

 

Until then:

nulltimespy graphic score:
9070xt over 30k
9070 over 26k
7900xtx 30.5k / 7900xt is 26.5k / 4080s 28.5k / 5070ti 27.7k / 6800xt-7800xt 20k

[EightyDuce]

 

[LucShep]

 Color me impressed!   Some things are exactly as leaks suggested, others are better.

Some points:

• Power consumption on the RX9070XT perhaps could be better (if compared to Nvidia 5070Ti and 4070Ti/S) but it's not egregious, it's still acceptable.
   
• It's curious how the RX9070XT actually places within (or against) the competicion - does better in 4K than it does in 1440P.
   
• How good the Ray Tracing performance is on the RX9070XT and RX9070 - a noticeable improvement.
  For example, Cyberpunk2077 is extremely demanding in RT (one of the worst offenders there) and when at 4K resolution + RT + Quality upscaling, the RX9070XT performs as good as an RTX4070Ti (though not as good as an RTX5070Ti), which is really surprising to me. In the past, there was a huge gap to Nvidia, not anymore.
   
• The RX9070 16GB (non XT) is as fast, sometimes faster, than the RTX5070 12GB and RTX4070S 12GB - for similar price and more VRAM, it is a better choice.
   
• The RX9070XT 16GB is nearly as fast, sometimes as fast, as the RTX5070Ti 16GB and RTX4080S 16GB which sell at higher prices, it then is a great alternative. 

So, AMD with RDNA4 is now not only consistently competitive in rasterization (no upscaling, no RT) but also competitive in RT as well (close to Nvidia's RTX4000 series here).

FSR4 is a massive improvement (now as good as DLSS3/4, image quality wise - see video right below) but the games support list needs to grow.
Previous FSR3/3.1 (currently used in most games) is nowhere as good, game developers really need to adopt/update latest FSR4 version in current and future games (hello ED??).

All in all, if at these prices (if not inflated), it's a no brainer - for 2025 it seems AMD RX9000 series will be most recommended for people upgrading slower/older GPUs.


FSR4 Review - Compared to FSR3.1, DLSS3 and DLSS4 - at 1080p, 1440p and 4K

------------------------------

EDIT: more reviews
 

 

Edited March 5 by LucShep

[EightyDuce]

While I don't see this all of a sudden propelling AMD marketshare, it's definitely a strong step forward if the supply and peicing hold up.

They're not going to sway NVidia diehards or those interested in specific titles in which nVidia has a clear upper hand but I would definitely think its enough to get the general public to take a strong second look, especially when considering street price and availability of 50XX cards. 

[Pilotasso]

@Aapje

 

The results are similar pretty much across the board for all games.

 

Conclusion: 7900XTX is still the best card for DCS rather than 9070XT, specially if you can still find any 7900XTX that have been on discount lately.

 

#IkeepMyPromisses

Edited March 5 by Pilotasso

[LucShep]

12 hours ago, Pilotasso said:

Conclusion: 7900XTX is still the best card for DCS rather than 9070XT, specially if you can still find any 7900XTX that have been on discount lately.

 

 

Heh...  and it better be (and also make you coffee in the process), looking at the outrageous price that they still are (in Europe at least).  

Can't find any 7900XTX below 1.000,00 EUR anywhere, and most popular places are actually listing them at over 1.200,00 EUR!
That's at least a third and closer to double the increase in cost over the expected street price of the RX9070XT and RX9070 16GB. Now that's a lot of money!

16GB VRAM is not considered dead on arrival for DCS.
The problem (IMHO) is this weak DCS userbase not putting enough pressure on ED, to fix the VRAM consumption problem once and for all (it's been how many years??). 
People seem more concerned and afflicted by FOMO (over utterly expensive hardware) rather than standing their ground as customers.
Honestly, to reach a conclusion -based on their large VRAM buffer alone- that there are only five GPUs (RTX5090, RTX4090, RTX3090, RX7900XTX and RX7900XT) worth true consideration for DCS, would make the developer itself look pretty darn stupid, wouldn't you agree?
 

Edited March 6 by LucShep
spelling + format

[EightyDuce]

3 hours ago, Pilotasso said:

@Aapje

 

The results are similar pretty much across the board for all games.

 

Conclusion: 7900XTX is still the best card for DCS rather than 9070XT, specially if you can still find any 7900XTX that have been on discount lately.

 

#IkeepMyPromisses

Think You're going to be hard pressed to find discounted 7900XTX, not sure where you're seeing discounts. In the US they are all well over $1000. Assuming 9070XT keeps MSRP, you're getting 88% of the performance for half the price.

null

[LucShep]

On a different note...

For the RX9070XT models that use the 12VHPWR power connector, some AIBs such as Sapphire placed a few neat details, doing it better than what Nvidia (and AIBs) does for their own models.

It's not that it's so much more reliable, but makes it inclusively easier and cheaper to repair it in case of a short circuit.
Which is to be praised, even if considering that this GPU is well within the theoretical 375W safety margins for the 12VHPWR power connector (none RX9070XT works over 350W), it might help in a repair years later if something occurs out of warranty.

That said, I think I'd still recommend models with the classic 8-pin power connectors - still better than this nonsense 12VHPWR solution.

Anyway, if you like to nerd on such details, here's Buildzoid dissecting it, on the Sapphire Nitro model:

 

Edited March 6 by LucShep

[sirrah]

5 hours ago, EightyDuce said:

Think You're going to be hard pressed to find discounted 7900XTX, not sure where you're seeing discounts. In the US they are all well over $1000. Assuming 9070XT keeps MSRP, you're getting 88% of the performance for half the price.

null

7900XTX prices here in The Netherlands drop under €1000,- (Perhaps not the best brands, I don't know), making the price gap between 9070xt and 7900xtx not that huge.

Hence my question before in this thread if the higher VRAM 7900XTX wouldn't be the better choice for DCS.

(I agree with @LucShep on ED having to do better on VRAM consumption, but I fear that one will take long..)

 

[LucShep]

Video review recap based on 6 different reviews, by Paul's Hardware:
 

[Aapje]

15 hours ago, Pilotasso said:

@Aapje

The results are similar pretty much across the board for all games.

Conclusion: 7900XTX is still the best card for DCS rather than 9070XT, specially if you can still find any 7900XTX that have been on discount lately.

Not really sure why you are claiming to have been right. Your reasoning was and is still flawed.

The actual 'best card' for DCS is the 5090. Everything else is weaker, and has less VRAM, but is also cheaper and uses less power.

Over where I live, you can get a dual-fan 7900 XTX for 914 euros. So compared to the 9070 XT MRSP and the performance metrics you posted, the 7900 XTX is 14% faster for a 30% higher price. And from what others posted, my local market is probably one of the better ones and in many places, that gap is even bigger.

And 16 GB of VRAM is still a very solid amount for DCS. If anything, what is DOA for DCS is the 5070, because I would definitely suggest that people get the 9070 XT or non-XT instead, because the extra 4 GB is a big deal.

Edited March 6 by Aapje

[Nightdare]

Well, concerning the new gen, unless AMD puts up a very good 9000 XTX, I'm not having any buyers remorse for getting the 4080 super late in the lifespan

(especially compared to 5070ti and 5080)

 

IMO (heavy) RT still is a problem for mid-tier, even for Nidia, making it a somewhat wasted feature, so AMD focusing on raw power works to their advantage

I'd say, nice effort of AMD

[LucShep]

Even good old reviewer Leo Waldock from KitGuru jumped on the AMD RDNA4 bandwagon and dumped Nvidia...
 

 

Edited March 6 by LucShep

[EightyDuce]

1 hour ago, Nightdare said:

Well, concerning the new gen, unless AMD puts up a very good 9000 XTX, I'm not having any buyers remorse for getting the 4080 super late in the lifespan

(especially compared to 5070ti and 5080)

 

IMO (heavy) RT still is a problem for mid-tier, even for Nidia, making it a somewhat wasted feature, so AMD focusing on raw power works to their advantage

I'd say, nice effort of AMD

Unless AMD does a pretty big pivot from what they've saying, I wouldn't expect a 9070XTX. AMD have said since RDNA4 was announced that they aren't targeting high-end with it. 

If RT performance is a priority, then your best hope is to snag an nVidia card at MSRP or pay inflated scalper price. If RT isn't a pivotal, then nearly 5070ti raster performance at half price ain't bad. 

They aren't going to topple nVidia, but definetly a strong showing at the time when nVidia keeps stepping on their own *beep*.