The T-50 (PAK-FA) Thread

[GGTharos]

Yep ... the 1D is called 2D and 2D is called 3D. Go figure :D

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

I don't understand why it's called 3D TVC. It thought it could only move along a x and y axis? And raptor can move only along a y axis?

I guess, one axis is actual vector of the jet stream and the other two vectors are vertical and horizontal movement of the nozzles.

[Maximus_G]

"Up-down" thrust vector positioning is performed along a single plane, which is a 2D object by its nature. Up-down-and-sides movement is volumetric, 3D.

 

From the other hand, 2D TVC can be described with 2 variables, the displacement angle (1) and vector length (2) (it's the thrust itself).

Therefore, 3 variables describe the 3D TVC, which are the 2 angles and length.

 

Concerning PAK FA, i would not be surprised to see 1-plane (up-down) moving nozzles on it at a later time, since you should get pretty good 3D TVC, when there are 2*2D thrust vectors individually controlled. The more separated they are, the merrier TVC would be.

[Teknetinium]

When Russians reach the point after several modernizations and testing where Pak-Fa has same capabilitys in avionics and missiles as F-22, like su-27 and F-15 today(I still consider Aim-120/R-77 performance balanced due to lack of prove). It will be time for USA to release their 6th generation fighter whit no pilots inside. Dogfight between this machines will be totally wicked. Cant even imagine how that would look, or what would be best way to get on bandits six.

 

In other hand due to big investments in SAM systems Im sure there is a lot of gained experience making TOR.M1, S-400. This missiles go active in last stage if needed.

Edited February 24, 2010 by Teknetinium

[sniffer]

It will be time for USA to release their 6th generation fighter whit no pilots inside. Dogfight between this machines will be totally wicked. Cant even imagine how that would look, or what would be best way to get on bandits six.

I bet soldiers will be sitting in warm places with Saitek/Cougar stuff and they'll control those stealth Transformers 6th generation. :joystick: :lol:

[Antartis]

From paralay pictures:

 

 

 

Better video:

 

 

and

http://lenta.ru/news/2010/02/24/pakfa/

 

I know, all is Russian...:(

Edited February 24, 2010 by Antartis

[Vekkinho]

^^^^

Nice post!

 

dunno, but Raptor looks more stealthy and more modern in design (IMHO).

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Front-view, PAK-FA looks like a space ship from sci-fi movies.

[LupinYonder]

Second Vid, 2:22 I'm guessing all is fine here but it certainly looked very close.

 

^^^^

Nice post!

 

dunno, but Raptor looks more stealthy and more modern in design (IMHO).

 

In the F-22 where the two engine intakes meet below the nose section seems to create a flat bottom and in my understanding a more stealthy shape. I have heard it said of the F-35 that its unsightly warts ( gun pods ) and other curves are distinctly un-stealthy and using this point of view the underside of the T-50 doesn't look so clean and crisp either. These are all opinions unfounded by any technical knowledge ;-)

Edited February 24, 2010 by LupinYonder

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Second Vid, 2:22 I'm guessing all is fine here but it certainly looked very close.

I was just looking at that! What missile is that? Very aggressive upward trajectory indeed.

[GGTharos]

It's an A2G glide-bomb or cruise missile. They will commonly use a lofted profile for longer ranges. This is something you don't normally see implemented in flight sims, the only one I have seen it in so far was JF18, and in some cases some of the F4's AGM-88 delivery profiles.

[FeoFUN]

I was just looking at that! What missile is that? Very aggressive upward trajectory indeed.

It seems to be a Kh-29L.

[Krippz]

It's an A2G glide-bomb or cruise missile. They will commonly use a lofted profile for longer ranges. This is something you don't normally see implemented in flight sims, the only one I have seen it in so far was JF18, and in some cases some of the F4's AGM-88 delivery profiles.

 

Might want to add "Open Falcon" to that list; check it out!

[LupinYonder]

In the F-22 where the two engine intakes meet below the nose section seems to create a flat bottom and in my understanding a more stealthy shape. I have heard it said of the F-35 that its unsightly warts ( gun pods ) and other curves are distinctly un-stealthy and using this point of view the underside of the T-50 doesn't look so clean and crisp either. These are all opinions unfounded by any technical knowledge ;-)

 

Srry for the self quote, just didn't want to lose my comment in my admittedly self started off topic conversation.

[EtherealN]

Remember that the PAK-FA flying today is a prototype. Don't be surprised if there are changes made to the configuration.

[GGTharos]

Might want to add "Open Falcon" to that list; check it out!

 

No thanks; had enough flakeon dancing.

[LupinYonder]

Remember that the PAK-FA flying today is a prototype. Don't be surprised if there are changes made to the configuration.

True, but looking back at the prototype YF-22 although some aspects of overall shape were changed the flavour of the airframe stayed the same from my own visual point of view.

 

I know we wont get any data ( hard or otherwise ) on the stealth characteristics of the T-50 or the F-22 for that matter and not being technically minded about such things myself I wouldn't be able to interpret it in any case.

 

I am interested though, in the shape characteristics of stealth and whether the T-50 shows a less aggressive approach to stealth characteristics in its shape than the F-22 for instance.

[Antartis]

Comparative stores weapons S-37 and F-22.

So we can get an idea of the capacity of the stores pak fa.

 

 

 

source;

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=98043&page=7

[EtherealN]

True, but looking back at the prototype YF-22 although some aspects of overall shape were changed the flavour of the airframe stayed the same from my own visual point of view.

 

Actually, I'd say that the configuration changes shown for the 22 there are a lot more radical than what would be associated to "fixing" the engines on the PAK-FA. The work on the 22 directly affect a lot of aerodynamics on the lift surfaces - on the PAK-FA any engine configuration changes would be a lot simpler.

 

Then again, they may have established that the difference caused by them is so miniscule as to not be worth bothering with. Guess we'll find out when it goes into mass production. :)

[LupinYonder]

Actually, I'd say that the configuration changes shown for the 22 there are a lot more radical than what would be associated to "fixing" the engines on the PAK-FA. The work on the 22 directly affect a lot of aerodynamics on the lift surfaces - on the PAK-FA any engine configuration changes would be a lot simpler.

 

Then again, they may have established that the difference caused by them is so miniscule as to not be worth bothering with. Guess we'll find out when it goes into mass production. :)

 

Yes indeed, we will wait ( and wait for prob 7-10+ years? ) before we find out but remember that the only the YF-22 is the prototype and others were pre prototype studies I think.

[hitman]

It's an A2G glide-bomb or cruise missile. They will commonly use a lofted profile for longer ranges. This is something you don't normally see implemented in flight sims, the only one I have seen it in so far was JF18, and in some cases some of the F4's AGM-88 delivery profiles.

FF/A-18 PSF had it too...modelled pretty accurate too.

[Pilotasso]

DID's Tornado did lots of good modeling back in 1993 with methods employed for bombs and missiles alike. Was awsome , but it became prey for those nasty MIG-29's da 31's. No wonder they call it "Tomato" :D

[LupinYonder]

Well I tried to steer us on topic but failed, oh well ;-)

[mikoyan]

DID's Tornado did lots of good modeling back in 1993 with methods employed for bombs and missiles alike. Was awsome , but it became prey for those nasty MIG-29's da 31's. No wonder they call it "Tomato" :D

 

A friend of my syster gave her that game but... she (evilsista) never let me intall it on her pentium acer spire whaaa.....:cry:

Do you still have a copy? Back then I had flanker 1.0 but as a demo, after five minutes the airplane would run out of fuel :cry: but now I finaly see the light she is no longer the ruler of the house!!! :pilotfly:

[Krippz]

No thanks; had enough flakeon dancing.

 

"flakeon" :lol::P