The T-50 (PAK-FA) Thread

[hitman]

The F-18C to E models are totally different aircraft, and really should have a different designation other than E/F variants. The only similarities between the A/C and E/F variants are similar shapes.

[hitman]

I think it's just an optical illusion caused by the angles. Certain angles from the "flying" vid corresponds with the runway test pic.

They are different aircraft. One has a complete paint job, the other one is still flying in its primered paint job...even though it isnt nothing to just take that tail section off in a matter of a few hours and change out a pod or 2 from back there. Of course, it kind of reminds me of the test space shuttle that has that aerodynamic cone covering the engines when they glide the craft off the back of the 747.

 

Edited January 29, 2010 by hitman

[topol-m]

They are different aircraft. One has a complete paint job, the other one is still flying in its primered paint job...e

 

Not at all they are the same aircraft and don`t have complete paint job:

 

[Pilotasso]

Thanks Sherlock. :music_whistling:

 

Not a single bit of technical info is available. No one on the Russian forum even dared to make such statements that you are proclaiming...

 

 

Even in bablefished russian I was able to find several such statements. Search better.

 

Pilotasso, calling the MiG-35 Russia's Super Hornet is acceptable, but PAK-FA...?

 

C'mon, the Super Hornet is a big modernization, but it's still called "Hornet", it looks almost the same, and the F/A-18 designation just received an "E"/"F" in the end.

 

Even saying the Rafale is "France's Super Hornet" wouldn't be quite right.

 

The PAK-FA is a whole different story. Well, it's true that, as all manufacturers, they used some stuff they learned over the years and applied on the project. But the difference from one or two similar details to being just a big modernization is huge ;)

 

Actually it is a complete redesign. They kept the looks (ie aerodynamics) and designation for political reasons - no doubt this also saved them some effort.

 

Thats why I called Superhornet of russia. Mig-35 would be Russians block 60 mig. :)

Edited January 29, 2010 by Pilotasso

[hitman]

Not at all they are the same aircraft and don`t have complete paint job:

 

There was one posted on yahoo! news, a picture of the PAK-FA that had the blue/white blob paint scheme...unless that one wasnt a different aircraft, which Im pretty sure it was.

[Kusch]

Other forum quote:

 

"Thats what peoples say on paralay ...the one flying today is T-50-1 while the one shown on the ground is presumably the T-50(KNS)..."

[gigz-on]

By the way, Gigz-on, are you testing the new Eyeball Mk.2 or what :P?

First: I'm not testing anything.. ;)

Second: Pogosyan says that there're totally three T-50s for flying tests:

- one with old type engines

- one with new 5th gen engines

- not finished one

so there easily could be two different planes on the picture ;)

Edited January 29, 2010 by gigz-on

[Kusch]

Second: Pogosyan says...

 

Any quote, or link?

 

Thanks :)

[gigz-on]

Any quote, or link?

 

Thanks :)

I'll try to find a link during the day ;)

[X-man]

Different plane or not, I still think the tail look the same on both, just that the angels are screwing with us.

[topol-m]

Thats why I called Superhornet of russia. Mig-35 would be Russians block 60 mig. :)

 

Yeah, if the Super hornet is a 5th gen stealth fighter than yeah maybe PAK-FA is the Super hornet of Russia. :doh: But I understand, now that the pictures are out and the videos also, ladies and gentlemen let the trolling begin!!! Things like this will be common from now on: "PAK-FA is an F-22 copy but fugly", "Stealth, nope, it will have RCS of a Jumbo jet", "F-35 can beat 4 of these with no effort, imagine what a single F-22 can do... we are talking squadrons here", "Big payload? Those two bays could not possibly store more than 2 missiles each, and I`m talking small ones like R-60"...

 

There was one posted on yahoo! news, a picture of the PAK-FA that had the blue/white blob paint scheme...unless that one wasnt a different aircraft, which Im pretty sure it was.

 

The blue one is fake as hell. THIS is the only prototype, at least the only one shown to the public.

Edited January 29, 2010 by topol-m

[Kusch]

[AlexHunter]

New foto ;) http://www.kommersant.ru/dark-gallery.aspx?PicsID=415335&stpid=65

[EvilBivol-1]

Perhaps useful observations:

 

- the canopy opens back, a la the Harrier. This probably implies that the front canopy railing is there for good and there will not be a one-piece canopy. Related, there is railing along the top of the canopy as well, a la the Su-25. Perhaps at least this part will disappear at some point.

 

- (via Chizh on the RU forums) the bulges underneath the wings adjacent to the main gear bays are internal stations for short-range air-to-air missiles. As a personal guess, this may imply that the two main internal bays can hold up to 2 medium-range AA missiles of the R-77 class for a total "stealth" payload of 4 medium range and 2 short-range missiles.

 

- there is a visible space between the leading edge of the front LERX and the fuselage. Perhaps a vortex generation technique or perhaps a moving LERX section.

 

- the LERX appear to be built for the L-band "side-looking" radar we've seen demonstrated on MAKS before.

 

- the engines appear to be well hidden if viewed from anything just above the aircraft. Straight on and below is not so clear.

 

My own 2 cents: Outside of the spherical engine installation, it looks 5-th generation enough to me. The build quality is certainly not as advanced as current Western standards (obvious riverting), but I think this will improve if the program is lucky enough to proceed as promised by the big wigs. There is a lot of talk about upgrading tooling machinery for produciton of the SuperJet, Su-34 and hopefully the PAK-FA. It may not be as stealthy as the F-22 or F-35, but IMO does appear to be a "proper" stealth airframe relative to the 4+ generation fighters.

 

As to its lines, I find clear similarities to the YF-23 on the front fuselage and the F-22 in the wings, but also enough indigenous lines to distinguish it as its own. In particular, the LERX and the extermely wide and relatively thin fuselage.

 

In all in all, it's not every day that Russia produces a new fighter, so congratulations to the people invovled and best of luck to the program.

Edited January 29, 2010 by EvilBivol-1

[GGTharos]

No different than the BS we used to hear (and still hear) about the F-22 :)

(Some people claim IRBIS=end of F22, too ;) )

 

 

Yeah, if the Super hornet is a 5th gen stealth fighter than yeah maybe PAK-FA is the Super hornet of Russia. :doh: But I understand, now that the pictures are out and the videos also, ladies and gentlemen let the trolling begin!!! Things like this will be common from now on: "PAK-FA is an F-22 copy but fugly", "Stealth, nope, it will have RCS of a Jumbo jet", "F-35 can beat 4 of these with no effort, imagine what a single F-22 can do... we are talking squadrons here", "Big payload? Those two bays could not possibly store more than 2 missiles each, and I`m talking small ones like R-60"..

[Vekkinho]

There's at least 2 flyable versions of PAK-FA we saw so far+one used for ground tests only (with "old" Saturn engines that can't supercruise) ...apart from the tailcone difference one of flyables has a spherical EOS like antenna behind the canopy, the other one hasn't!

[Teknetinium]

I HATE IT, LOOKS LIKE YF-23 and I realy dont understand why bend the plane in the middle, the opposite way then Su-27. Im disappointed hope it get some make over before entering service.

I think PAK-FA would have smaller profile the rapter and have les drag. Witch is needed to compensate probably weaker engines.

 

Then again Mi-28 dosen look good. :)

Edited January 30, 2010 by Teknetinium

[RvETito]

I'm not sure whether this plane is powered by AL-41 but it obviously features a tremendous thrust-to-weight ratio. That climb with gear down and no A/B is really impressive. Also, from what I read it will get it's AESA radar onboard somewhere around september.

[A.S]

[Pilotasso]

Perhaps useful observations:

 

- the canopy opens back, a la the Harrier. This probably implies that the front canopy railing is there for good and there will not be a one-piece canopy. Related, there is railing along the top of the canopy as well, a la the Su-25. Perhaps at least this part will disappear at some point.

 

- (via Chizh on the RU forums) the bulges underneath the wings adjacent to the main gear bays are internal stations for short-range air-to-air missiles. As a personal guess, this may imply that the two main internal bays can hold up to 2 medium-range AA missiles of the R-77 class for a total "stealth" payload of 4 medium range and 2 short-range missiles.

 

- there is a visible space between the leading edge of the front LERX and the fuselage. Perhaps a vortex generation technique or perhaps a moving LERX section.

 

- the LERX appear to be built for the L-band "side-looking" radar we've seen demonstrated on MAKS before.

 

- the engines appear to be well hidden if viewed from anything just above the aircraft. Straight on and below is not so clear.

 

My own 2 cents: Outside of the spherical engine installation, it looks 5-th generation enough to me. The build quality is certainly not as advanced as current Western standards (obvious riverting), but I think this will improve if the program is lucky enough to proceed as promised by the big wigs. There is a lot of talk about upgrading tooling machinery for produciton of the SuperJet, Su-34 and hopefully the PAK-FA. It may not be as stealthy as the F-22 or F-35, but IMO does appear to be a "proper" stealth airframe relative to the 4+ generation fighters.

 

As to its lines, I find clear similarities to the YF-23 on the front fuselage and the F-22 in the wings, but also enough indigenous lines to distinguish it as its own. In particular, the LERX and the extermely wide and relatively thin fuselage.

 

In all in all, it's not every day that Russia produces a new fighter, so congratulations to the people invovled and best of luck to the program.

 

Wasnt the total bay capacity up to 8 missiles?

 

Also the engine ducts seem to be pretty much straight. Doesnt that make them visible on the frontal aspect?

Maybe this is prone to change? (with new engines)

 

My personal view, riveting may be minimized in the final plane just like Mig-35 is, though I believe, this, along with frontal and side profile reduction has been the main techniques for RCS reduction. Look how flat it looks.

Possibly this is why the aircraft is not monolithic in shape like the F-22 or F-35. (would make the PAK FA less flat and stand more to exposure sideways).

 

These are of course assumtpions, but makes sense because I dont believe the russians want the hassle of meticulous and expensive skin maintenace.

 

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

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Mr. KOPP has been rated as an ignorant troll working for other aircraft lobies. His assumptions dont actualy have any facts behind them. F-35 aquisition by RAAF was a mediatic circus in australia with rampant bashing.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Pilotasso

[A.S]

Someone noticed the wierd angles and the small size (RCS) of the rudders on the T-50 ..

 

and to achieve still enough steering surface, they move as a whole unit ..smart.

[Pilotasso]

...probably also has to do with agility at supersonic speeds a la SR-71 (or perhaps can work like blackwidows pelican tail?). Most rudders dont do that. Thats one feature the F35 doesnt have. But I think is due to the fact the 2 are probably aimed at different requirements.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Pilotasso

[hitman]

[YOUTUBE]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="

name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="

type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

 

the statement saying the f-35 is slow, cant climb or turn is just stupid, when in fact its lighter than an f-16, has cleaner aerodynamics than an f-16, and has the most powerful low-bypass turbofan engine in existance! it has an enormous thrust to weight ratio, and to top it off, these things have unprecedented situational awareness capabilities.

 

last week, a british test pilot flew an f-35b for the first time, and he had absolutely no qualms about its performance

 

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/news/press_releases/2010/100127ae_f35bf-2_royal-airforce.html.

[GGTharos]

Anything that comes from Carlo Kopp is pure, unadulterated drivel. He knows nothing, and the best part of it all, he gets paid to publish his BS!

 

I wish I was this smart, I'd love to get paid for drivel :P

[Teknetinium]

Anything that comes from Carlo Kopp is pure, unadulterated drivel. He knows nothing, and the best part of it all, he gets paid to publish his BS!

 

I wish I was this smart, I'd love to get paid for drivel :P

 

 

That job would suit you GG.:music_whistling: