F-15 Multi-Stage Improvement Program (MSIP)

[F-2]

5 hours ago, wilbur81 said:

Interesting report. What source was this article from?

F-16adf on F-16.net posted it. I didnt get the name but he often finds stuff like this. He would probably tell you.

 

https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=59744

[Ramius007]

Any plans to add pre MSIP II version, or allow editor options to remove 2010 tech, so it will actully fit scenarios with 80's FF Fulcrum provided earlier?

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

54 minutes ago, Ramius007 said:

Any plans to add pre MSIP II version, or allow editor options to remove 2010 tech, so it will actully fit scenarios with 80's FF Fulcrum provided earlier?

 

[Ramius007]

1 hour ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

 

Desert Storm Eagles were past MSIP I, it's preety much what current FC F-15 is, MSIP II was adding DL, helmet, 9x, not sure when GPS was added. Even just a DL is quite a gamechanger for 80's jet and ability that historically wasnt avaible, as you know already

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

26 minutes ago, Ramius007 said:

Desert Storm Eagles were past MSIP

Those were actually very few aircraft: the ones in the most "elite" squadrons were rushed to get to upgrades, while the others - such as the USAFE birds deployed at Soesterberg were all pre-MSIP.

[NEW is my Callsign.]

Well the radar had a few differences. APG-63(V1) is the one we're probably getting, and Desert Storm birds had APG-63. But as far as I know in practice the radar should just have a few extra modes

[bies]

To put some facts in order - it was nearly all MSIP II during Gulf War. 

1. There was no F-15C MSIP I, original F-15 "MSIP Phase I" plan was canceled - USAF went straight to MSIP II ("MSIP Phase II"). MSIP II started in 1983, aircraft being operational since 1985 and modernization went fast and smooth.
2. All of the USAF F-15C Eagle squadrons that deployed to Desert Storm flew under MSIP II upgrades, with NCTR, upgraded computer, MPCD, AMRAAM integration (not utilized due to blue-on-blue concerns) etc.; 27th TFS (1st TFW, FF) "Fighting Eagles" operating from King Abdulaziz AB, 71st TFS (1st TFW, FF) "Ironmen" from King Abdulaziz AB, 53rd TFS (4th TFW, BT) "Tigers" from Prince Sultan AB, 58th TFS (33rd TFW, EG) "Gorillas" from King Faisal AB - all were flying MSIP II.
3. Saudi F-15C were pre-MISP II.
4. This four USAF F-15C MSIP II squadrons achieved 34 out of 36 F-15C air kills of Gulf War, 2 were achieved by Saudi pre-MSIP F-15C.
5. In late December 1990, USAFE had 10 F-15C Eagles already in Turkey on rotation and NATO exercises.
   When Turkey approved combat operations, those aircraft (drawn from rotational squadrons such as the 525th TFS and others) were merged into the 7440th Composite Wing (Provisional) at Incirlik on 16 January 1991.
   EDIT: This was non-MSIP II group, performing BARCAP outside of main combat area, in Northern Iraq, to prevent fleeing aircrafts from landing in Iran, similar to Saudi F-15C on the south.
6. USAF didn't want any non-MSIP II aircraft to be engaged in air combat as non-MSIP II didn't have the new NCTR capability which was a BIG deal, they were afraid of blue-on-blue without this additional IFF.

Edited May 22 by bies

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

13 minutes ago, bies said:

at Incirlik on 16 January 1991.
All of these F-15Cs were MSIP II-standard as well.

Not according to "Muddy" Watrous, who flew Soesterberg birds out of Incirlik.

[bies]

5 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

Not according to "Muddy" Watrous, who flew Soesterberg birds out of Incirlik.

It must be true if he said so - and the reason why USAF gave 7440th Composite Wing and Saudi squadrons such a secondary/support role, mostly BARCAP outside of main combat area.

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

43 minutes ago, bies said:

It must be true if he said so - and the reason why USAF gave 7440th Composite Wing and Saudi squadrons such a secondary/support role, mostly BARCAP outside of main combat area.

In one of the latest 10 Percent True interviews, he said that since the production line had stopped, the Saudi birds were taken out of his squadron so they are the exact same model: they had to give up 12 out of 24 aircraft for 36 pilots so they started rotating them out to different units too.
They are very interesting interviews :-) 

[bies]

46 minutes ago, Raven (Elysian Angel) said:

In one of the latest 10 Percent True interviews, he said that since the production line had stopped, the Saudi birds were taken out of his squadron so they are the exact same model: they had to give up 12 out of 24 aircraft for 36 pilots so they started rotating them out to different units too.
They are very interesting interviews

Yes, i must have heard it as i remember how they were waiting for Turkey to approve their operation from thir territory.

[Gambit21]

On 5/16/2025 at 7:26 AM, Ramius007 said:

Any plans to add pre MSIP II version....

 

Hope so.

 

 

[Porco Rosso]

Guys I’m a bit confused, MSIP II has the same cockpit as the f15c Fc3? Cause I’m seeing some MSIP II with a bigger mfd 

[Raven (Elysian Angel)]

1 minute ago, Porco Rosso said:

Guys I’m a bit confused, MSIP II has the same cockpit as the f15c Fc3? Cause I’m seeing some MSIP II with a bigger mfd 

Read the thread linked above

[Porco Rosso]

21 ore fa, Raven (Elysian Angel) ha scritto:

Read the thread linked above

Actually I didn’t find the answer 

[draconus]

22 hours ago, Porco Rosso said:

Cause I’m seeing some MSIP II with a bigger mfd

That's probably modern PAD.

https://www.twz.com/21081/the-usaf-has-quietly-added-large-multi-function-cockpit-displays-to-its-f-15c-fleet

[bies]

On 5/29/2025 at 2:31 PM, Porco Rosso said:

Guys I’m a bit confused, MSIP II has the same cockpit as the f15c Fc3? Cause I’m seeing some MSIP II with a bigger mfd 

Yes. There were 4 main F-15C standards:

1. 1979 to 1984: Initial F-15C, similar to F-15A but a bit heavier, reinforced wing for 9G, a bit more internal fuel, added internal AN/ALQ-135 ECM, AN/ALR-45 flares/chaff, upgraded APG-63. Used in combat only by Saudi Arabia during 1991 Gulf War with 2 air kills Mirage F1.
2. 1985 to 2004: F-15C MSIP II, added new F100-PW-220 engines, PACS armament control, MPCD display, AN-ALR-56C RWR, AN/ARL-47 flare/chaff, improved AN/ALQ-135 band 4 ECM, NCTR IFF, PSP processor, ACSG HOTAS, pugraded HUD, partial NVG integration, AMRAAM integration and wiring. This variant achieved nearly all F-15C air kills, it was used in late Cold War in Europe, 1991 Gulf War operation Desert Storm with 36 air kills, 1993-1995 Balkan War operation Deny Flight, 1999 operation Allied Force with 2 air kills MiG-29. This is FC3 F-15.
3. 2005 to 2016: still F-15C MSIP II, but mid life upgrade, added Link-16, JHMCS, GPS-navigation, AIM-9X integration, APG-63v(1) with reliability and ECCM upgrade, newer computer. Used in Operation Iraq Freedom since ~2005, no air kills as Iraq basically didn't have aviation anymore. This will be FF DCS F-15.
4. 2017 to 2026-pahse out: Golden Eagle, added AN/APG(v)3 AESA LPI radar, PAD Passive Attack Display with sensor fusion, AIM-120D integration, Sniper pod, new digital HUD classified AN/ALQ-135 ECM and AN/ALR-56C upgrades, classifed EPAWSS self protection. Used in patrols over Syria operation Inherent Resolve since ~2018, no air kills.

Edited May 30 by bies

[F-2]

On 3/6/2025 at 10:06 AM, wilbur81 said:

Interesting report. What source was this article from?

F-16ADF posted it on F-16.net. I’m not sure were he got it but the format looks like world power journal like the last post said.

[Porco Rosso]

1 ora fa, draconus ha scritto:

That's probably modern PAD.

https://www.twz.com/21081/the-usaf-has-quietly-added-large-multi-function-cockpit-displays-to-its-f-15c-fleet

 

30 minuti fa, bies ha scritto:

Yes. There were 4 main F-15C standards:

1. 1979 to 1984: Initial F-15C, similar to F-15A but a bit heavier, reinforced wing for 9G, a bit more internal fuel, added internal AN/ALQ-135 ECM, AN/ALR-45 flares/chaff, upgraded APG-63. Used in combat only by Saudi Arabia during 1991 Gulf War with 2 air kills Mirage F1.
2. 1985 to 2004: F-15C MSIP II, added new F100-PW-220 engines, PACS armament control, MPCD display, AN-ALR-56C RWR, AN/ARL-47 flare/chaff, improved AN/ALQ-135 band 4 ECM, NCTR IFF, PSP processor, ACSG HOTAS, pugraded HUD, partial NVG integration, AMRAAM integration and wiring. This variant achieved nearly all F-15C air kills, it was used in late Cold War in Europe, 1991 Gulf War operation Desert Storm with 36 air kills, 1993-1995 Balkan War operation Deny Flight, 1999 operation Allied Force with 2 air kills MiG-29. This is FC3 F-15.
3. 2005 to 2016: still F-15C MSIP II, but mid life upgrade, added Link-16, JHMCS, GPS-navigation, AIM-9X integration, APG-63v(1) with reliability and ECCM upgrade, newer computer. Used in Operation Iraq Freedom, no air kills as Iraq basically didn't have aviation anymore. This will be FF DCS F-15.
4. 2017 to 2026 pahse out: Golden Eagle, added AN/APG(v)3 AESA LPI radar, PAD Passive Attack Display with sensor fusion, AIM-120D integration, Sniper pod, new digital HUD classified AN/ALQ-135 ECM and AN/ALR-56C upgrades, classifed EPAWSS self protection. Used in patrols over Syria operation Inherent Resolve, no air kills.

Thanks for the answer guys

[F-2]

I think MSIP I jets got AMRAAM support at some point. I know Saudi Eagles had AMRAAM including some given directly from USAFE stock to the Saudi airforce and then never received another upgrade.

 

https://web.archive.org/web/20140526083455/http://www.touchdown-aviation.com/reports/2014/green-shield-157516041575158215901585-1588161016041583-2014.php

https://www.runway-fever.nl/galleries/2014-2/green-shield-2014/
 

Quote

This year the Royal Saudi Air Force deployed six F-15 Eagles from 2 Squadron based at Tabuk/King Faisal air base to Nancy-Ochey to participate in Green Shield. Together with the local Mirage 2000Ds, Mirage 2000-5Fs from BA116 Luxeuil-St. Saveur, Mirage 2000B aircraft from Base aérienne 115 Orange-Caritat and Rafales from BA113 Saint-Dizier, they flew daily missions.

Four of the six deployed F-15s once belonged to a batch of 24 Eagles that had been transferred to Saudi Arabia from USAFE inventory in October 1990. F-15C 208 (79-0017) and F-15D 233 (79-0004) once were part of the inventory of  the 32nd TFS, Soesterberg AB. The other two Eagles, F-15C 214 (79-0043) and F-15D 232 (79-0006), once flew from Bitburg AFB, Germany, where they belonged to the 525th TFS / 36th TFW.

https://defence.pk/threads/saudi-and-french-fighters-get-familiar-f-15c-vs-rafale.330385/#post-6092696

 

Quote

Two weeks into the exercise, the Saudis have grown into the Nancy environment and are giving the French a hard time. Camille Jolly, a weapons systems officer (‘wizzo’) from Nancy, flew against the Saudi pilots in the backseat of a Dassault Rafale B in the morning. “We were actually killed by them, but we did take out some of their aircraft too. I think the score was an equal 3-3.” According to Jolly the general goal of a Green Shield mission is to force a hole in air defenses by using offensive air, so that Mirage 2000D strike aircraft can move through to hit their targets.

F-15C MSIP would probably need AMRAAM to go 3-3 against AESA equipt Rafale.

 

 

also in the late 90s Japan had a small number of aim-120b for their F-15J which are essentially MSIP I. J-MSIP II wasn’t till the early 2000s.

[NEW is my Callsign.]

On 5/30/2025 at 9:04 AM, bies said:

Yes. There were 4 main F-15C standards:

1. 1979 to 1984: Initial F-15C, similar to F-15A but a bit heavier, reinforced wing for 9G, a bit more internal fuel, added internal AN/ALQ-135 ECM, AN/ALR-45 flares/chaff, upgraded APG-63. Used in combat only by Saudi Arabia during 1991 Gulf War with 2 air kills Mirage F1.
2. 1985 to 2004: F-15C MSIP II, added new F100-PW-220 engines, PACS armament control, MPCD display, AN-ALR-56C RWR, AN/ARL-47 flare/chaff, improved AN/ALQ-135 band 4 ECM, NCTR IFF, PSP processor, ACSG HOTAS, pugraded HUD, partial NVG integration, AMRAAM integration and wiring. This variant achieved nearly all F-15C air kills, it was used in late Cold War in Europe, 1991 Gulf War operation Desert Storm with 36 air kills, 1993-1995 Balkan War operation Deny Flight, 1999 operation Allied Force with 2 air kills MiG-29. This is FC3 F-15.
3. 2005 to 2016: still F-15C MSIP II, but mid life upgrade, added Link-16, JHMCS, GPS-navigation, AIM-9X integration, APG-63v(1) with reliability and ECCM upgrade, newer computer. Used in Operation Iraq Freedom since ~2005, no air kills as Iraq basically didn't have aviation anymore. This will be FF DCS F-15.
4. 2017 to 2026-pahse out: Golden Eagle, added AN/APG(v)3 AESA LPI radar, PAD Passive Attack Display with sensor fusion, AIM-120D integration, Sniper pod, new digital HUD classified AN/ALQ-135 ECM and AN/ALR-56C upgrades, classifed EPAWSS self protection. Used in patrols over Syria operation Inherent Resolve since ~2018, no air kills.

The C Eagle never got a new HUD or EPAWSS. But most of it is correct yes.