DCS WW2 Naval modules

[Devil 505]

I would like to kick start or re kick start a topic discussing a dedicated Naval module and interest for such future content.  Personally, I think there is so much potential out there for WW2 Naval modules and the ability to do them well. 

I think the incorporation of a Naval simulation to include ships with multiple stations for single or coop play along with submarine warfare would be a game changer for DCS WW2 and maybe even more modern Naval units.  There are currently a lot of good WW2 ship museums and documentation out there to be able to utilize for a project like this.  Here in Texas, we have the USS Texas (BB35 Battleship), USS Stewart (Fletcher Class Destroyer), USS Cavala (Gato Class sub), and the USS Lexington (Carrier CV-16).  The opportunity for 3D scans, photogrammetry, and loads of documentation is abundant.  There are many other Naval museums like this scattered around the US as well to include several huge battleships from the war.  

The purpose of starting this thread is to see if there is interest in these types of modules and to tie Wags @Wags, Nineline @NineLine, and @BIGNEWY in just to keep them in the loop for possible interest.  There are some older sims out there I feel started off well and have the foundation of what ED could possibly do and improve upon if they were to go down the road of Naval modules/combat. 

I will post my videos and ideas in this thread and would highly encourage anyone to do the same if they are interested in seeing something like this in DCS World. I think it's important to keep these ideas flowing so ED can see if there is interest there or not. What I do not want to see is this thread get shut down because someone goes off in the weeds talking sierra.  If you think this is a bad idea and do not support Naval modules cool, just say that and be respectful with constructive feedback.

I will kick this off with saying a destroyer module would be awesome for the WW2 Pacific and Atlantic maps we have.  There is a destroyer sim out there now I will demonstrate in the video below.  ED already seems to be on the path of dedicated ship modules with the super carrier.  I feel working multiple stations for a dedicated ship module is not an unrealistic goal. The video below was solo, but I could imagine a DCS dedicated ship where coop is optional having someone at the helm, the sonar station, CIC, lookout, weapons systems, ect..... The video below is a taste of what could be an amazing start to Naval modules in DCS World and what it could turn into. 

Two ships working in coordination to keep Subs away from the fleet would be beyond immersive and fun.  Imagine online play where Corsairs are launching to go achieve an objective and maybe through some real time strategy or AI element, subs are sent to attack the fleet and the destroyer have to keep them away or destroy them.  I demonstrate this in the video below.  Just in this small area it took a lot of coordination and work chasing 2 U-boats around to keep them off the fleet.  

This could lead into submarine combat down the road where players command U-Boats or US Gato class subs, but at launch, AI subs could be used for the module along with attacking AI ships and aircraft.  I think this would be a huge hit and new genre for DCS world.  

 

[Andrew8604]

Most definitely would love this!  Well, that's a video of Destroyer Simulator on Steam, I think.  We might not need all that animation.

If ED makes:

• a player operable Mk37 gun director for the 5-inch/38 gun mounts (which is dual-purpose and can be used against surface targets and shore bombardment)
• player operable Mk51 director with Mk14 lead-computing optical sight for the twin- and quad-mount 40mm guns
• a player operable 20mm gun mount with the same Mk14 lead-computing optical sight (or iron sights)...

...these three gun systems make up the standard anti-aircraft armaments on virtually all US Navy surface combat ships from 1943 to the end of WWII. 

Then include ship models of the...

• Fletcher and Sumner class destroyers (in WWII configuration)
• Cleveland, Atlanta and Baltimore class cruisers
• North Carolina, South Dakota and Iowa class battleships
• Independence class light carriers. 

Including compatibility with VR.  Eventually, include a simplified, integrated CIC (Combat information center) in each ship so that one or two players might be able to use air search radars, direct a group of ships in speed, direction, formations and combat action against enemy contacts, as well as direct fighter aircraft via comm menus or radio comms to players to intercept airborne targets. Also, have the plot board.  Sonar could be operated from CIC, as well.

I think it would be a heck of a lot of fun to be able to man a Mk51 director to remote-aim a quad 40mm mount to try to shoot down attacking dive bombers and torpedo bombers to defend the ship and task force.  With the help of AI gunners manning the other guns on the ship that other players are not in control of.  I used to try my best at this when we were able to occupy a gun mount on the Samuel Chase ship.  In a formation of other Samuel Chase and LSTs, with 24 or so attacking AI Fw190's in Zero skins, it made for quite a sea battle scene in sights and sounds!! ...especially with a couple mods of other WWII ships.  Puffs of black dotted the skies with tracers flying everywhere!

[Silver_Dragon]

The talking about a "naval module" coming from years ago, and all about the Naval Warfare.

The "problem"... DCS World missing all about a real module building block about a ship module. The Supercarrier module has nothing resembling the functionality of a real surface vessel; it simply uses a ridiculous function to control a ship. There's nothing about sea physics, how navigation controls work, and much less a bridge or anything like that.

Also, keep in mind that we're still missing the briefing room on the supercarrier, something that on paper (just a WW2 aircraft carrier) would be necessary, and we still don't even know how it will actually work (there are no videos of its functionality), since there's only a 3D model.

Pros and Cons:

•  Creating a naval module requires building blocks that don't currently exist in DCS World, such as the following:
  • There are no maritime physics, such as currents, depth, salinity, waves, or wind. There is also no sonar engine, which is imperative for naval warfare in World War II, with sound propagation, thermal layers, bottom effects, reverberation, etc.
  • There is no realistic ship damage modeling that simulates a ship's compartmentalization, such as bulkheads and watertight cavities, engines, bridges, fuel tanks, or magazines.
  • There is also no simulation of fire propagation, ammunition detonations, or flooding, or the applicable physics.
  • Formulas such as armor impacts or interior explosions that simulate damage or cause catastrophic explosions on ships. - Likewise, damage control simulation, or the crew itself and its shifts, or conducting a battle drill and different states of alarm.
  • Regarding armament, the current simulation leaves much to be desired. There are no specific cannons (naval, anti-aircraft, or multipurpose), nor ammunition as such (armor-piercing, HE, anti-aircraft, mixed, illuminating); it's not possible to switch between different types, nor is it possible to configure the magazines.
  • There's no central fire control, much less a functional fire director (it doesn't even exist on land); everything is local control.
  • All anti-submarine weapons are completely nonexistent, whether depth charges, forward-firing weapons, or guided torpedoes (everything related to configuring a hydrostatic fuse for detonations at depth).
  • Current torpedoes are like dumb missiles that don't even have the option to configure their guidance (either straight course or gyro), depth, or fuses (contact/magnetic), not to mention the first passive anti-ship and anti-submarine torpedoes.
  • All underwater damage against ships and submarines is nonexistent. The same goes for the entire concept of mine warfare.

Another unsimulated point is that we can't "walk" inside a ship (in the Supercarrier, we move a camera, not a crew member), a feature that currently doesn't exist.

We have the problem that currently, no one can create a pilotable ship module with its internal cockpit, or multiple cockpits (the Supercarrier itself is not a ship module, it is a "monster" that is locked in the code). You can't modding to make a pilotable ship because you can't create "cockpits" like an aircraft module (just as you can't make a vehicle, because CA doesn't have cockpits either and is also locked), so currently you can't make a "community module" as such.

Regarding the creation of a destroyer, ED is creating a Fletcher class (we don't know its age or model) along with other WWII ships on the WW2 assets pack, so we would have to investigate how the entire fire control system works, how it is simulated and what we could be doing.

• A funtional CIC with and a Bridge.
• Mk4 FC director and Mk30 on local control.
• On AAA, 40mm and 20mm on local control.
• Mk14/15 TT launchers
• Some kind of Sonar control with orders to the Mk6 K-Gun and Mk3/6/9 DC Rails.
• Some kind of engine / fuel management.
• Damage control and crew management.

Edited yesterday at 03:24 PM by Silver_Dragon

[Silver_Dragon]

5 hours ago, Andrew8604 said:

 In a formation of other Samuel Chase and LSTs, with 24 or so attacking AI Fw190's in Zero skins, it made for quite a sea battle scene in sights and sounds!! ...especially with a couple mods of other WWII ships.  Puffs of black dotted the skies with tracers flying everywhere!

The future PTO (WW2 Assets pack) by ED will coming with:

• Aircrafts:
  • SBD-5 Dauntless
  • SB2C Helldiver
  • TBF Avenger
  • Catalina
  • A6M5 Zero
  • Nakajima B6N Jill
  • D4Y Judy
  • D3A Val
  • B5N Kate
• Navy:
  • USS Enterprise CV-6 Worktown class carrier
  • Iowa-class battleship
  • Cleveland-class light cruiser
  • Fletcher-class destroyer
  • Shokaku aircraft carrier
  • Yugumo-class destroyer
  • Kongo battleship
  • Mogami cruiser
  • Mogami carrier conversion
  • a IJN transport vessel
• Land
  • Some IJN/IJA land units

Some of them was show on "2024/5 and Beyond" and "M3 F4U" release video. Not more German aircrafts with fake skins. Other Land IJN/IJA units has been release by M3 on the F4U release.

Edited yesterday at 03:23 PM by Silver_Dragon

[Devil 505]

11 hours ago, Silver_Dragon said:

The "problem"... DCS World missing all about a real module building block about a ship module. The Supercarrier module has nothing resembling the functionality of a real surface vessel; it simply uses a ridiculous function to control a ship. There's nothing about sea physics, how navigation controls work, and much less a bridge or anything like that.

Fare enough. Just trying to see how many people out there would enjoy it.  I will save this hype train for another year when ED is closer to having the above missing building blocks if that ever becomes a reality.