No stick displacement in Force feedback ?

[FZG_Immel]

Question. when trimming my plane on the elevator axis, the stick doesnt move like in any other warbird. The trim tab should move and that should have an effect on the stick depending on the airspeed. right now the trim acts directly on the control surface. this is wrong

 

Is this a bug ?

A missing feature ?

 

thanks

Edited yesterday at 09:09 PM by FZG_Immel

[GTFreeFlyer]

I don’t think it’s implemented yet.  I’m with the AB9 base and don’t have the trim working like that either.  Also, the stick shakes much too much in small G maneuvers not close to stall.  It’s better than nothing and I’m happy there’s this initial implementation to play with for now.  

[FZG_Immel]

hopefully it gets adressed. this is an immersion killer

[peachmonkey]

My Rhino FFB doesn't move when I trim in fw190a8, fw190D9, K4, P47, and Mosquito. Why is it supposed to move in F4U?

[Cgjunk2]

I'm not sure if this was already noted elsewhere, but I noticed that the position of the visual stick in the cockpit doesn't change in relation to trim either.     

 

5 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

My Rhino FFB doesn't move when I trim in fw190a8, fw190D9, K4, P47, and Mosquito. Why is it supposed to move in F4U?

The stick position should change based on the trim on all of those.  In real life, the stick cannot remain in the center, because that means the control surface is also "centered". If the control surface were to remain centered all the time, it could only fly one speed without increasing or decreasing in altitude.  The faster the plane goes, the more lift it makes, requiring forward stick pressure to maintain altitude at the new higher speed (and vice-versa).   In real life, trim is used to relieve those pressures, so the stick can stay in that new position without you having to push to keep it in the required position. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Cgjunk2

[peachmonkey]

9 hours ago, Cgjunk2 said:

I'm not sure if this was already noted elsewhere, but I noticed that the position of the visual stick in the cockpit doesn't change in relation to trim either.     

 

The stick position should change based on the trim on all of those.  In real life, the stick cannot remain in the center, because that means the control surface is also "centered". If the control surface were to remain centered all the time, it could only fly one speed without increasing or decreasing in altitude.  The faster the plane goes, the more lift it makes, requiring forward stick pressure to maintain altitude at the new higher speed (and vice-versa).   In real life, trim is used to relieve those pressures, so the stick can stay in that new position without you having to push to keep it in the required position. 

I get what you're saying, I'm not an expert, however doesn't P47 has special trim tabs that are controlled by the trim wheel? I.e. when trimming you're not moving the main control surface but a tiny little 'tabs' on them. Do these trim tabs exert pressure on the main surface and cause it to deflect (therefore moving the stick in the cockpit), or do the tabs simply change the airflow just enough to affect the aerodynamics of the plane therefore changing its attitude/aoa/etc. ?

In case of K4 and fw190s the elevator trim is done by moving the whole stabilizer (not just the elevator surface), so again, I'm not sure how that'll affect the stick position in the cockpit, somehow it tells me that it won't... 

Edited 10 hours ago by peachmonkey

[Art-J]

5 hours ago, peachmonkey said:

[...] I.e. when trimming you're not moving the main control surface but a tiny little 'tabs' on them. Do these trim tabs exert pressure on the main surface and cause it to deflect (therefore moving the stick in the cockpit) [...]

Yes, that's what principle of operation of any trim tab in any aircraft is, no matter whether it's articulated by wheel, hat switch or whatever.

Thus, in these planes which feature trim tabs and have control surfaces directly connected to control sticks, yokes and pedals, the latter want to move when trimming - unless pilot is strong enough to keep the controls fixed in place of course - then he will "only" feel force changes.

FFB sticks should move a bit then for us gamers as well. If they don't in some modules, it means FFB implementation in FM is not yet complete, or FFB software of device itself needs further development as well.

[GTFreeFlyer]

Yup, the control surface is free-floating on the hinge and just aligns itself so that pressure on the top and bottom are equal.  If you want to trim the nose up, the trim tab on the elevator actually moves DOWN, which causes more pressure underneath the elevator, lifting it up until the aerodynamics are balanced again, and now you have a little bit of up elevator to pitch the nose up.  The control cables go from the yoke/stick to the elevator, so when that elevator takes a new position it pulls the stick along as well to a new center point.  

Hope that makes sense

 

Note, things are different when it’s fly-by-wire. But we don’t worry much about that in Warbird threads

[peachmonkey]

2 hours ago, Art-J said:

Yes, that's what principle of operation of any trim tab in any aircraft is, no matter whether it's articulated by wheel, hat switch or whatever.

Thus, in these planes which feature trim tabs and have control surfaces directly connected to control sticks, yokes and pedals, the latter want to move when trimming - unless pilot is strong enough to keep the controls fixed in place of course - then he will "only" feel force changes.

FFB sticks should move a bit then for us gamers as well. If they don't in some modules, it means FFB implementation in FM is not yet complete, or FFB software of device itself needs further development as well.

ok, gotcha, so this 'movement' can then only be observed/felt while traveling at speed, and not on the ground, i.e. essentially a change to the spring center force. Well, I fly the 190A and D9 all the time and use the elevator trim to adjust for fuel changes and I never felt this 'change' in the Rhino FFB... and the spring center force comes from DCS, so I doubt it's Rhino's fault..  Headscratcher...