Sensors!!!!

[AeriaGloria]

Wonder if anyone has more insight then I have been able to glean from manuals. 
 

In FC3, I’m sure I’m not the only one that likes to constantly switch sensors. If I am in position to have IRST lock, but need to get closer, I might acquire with radar, switch to IRST, then either fire fox 2 when ready or fire fox 1 and have it switch to radar leading. 
 

And I’m sure EVERYONE has to atleast do this to IFF an IRST target. 
 

And for FF, this won’t change in that, as long as IRST is leading, you won’t get IFF. 
 

So, unlike FC3, where one sensor will pick up lost lock of other in any mode, this only happens in IRL and FF if we flip the cooperation/interaction switch forward, which will lock radar to MPRF. And HUD scale to 25 km. 
 

This seems like a meaningless gimp and asinine and dumb! Right? But it almost makes sense, MPRF range is anywhere from 18-35 km depending on altitude, background, RCS, etc, so this roughly lines up with IRST range well, though I expect many times to have IRST outrange against a rear aspect AB target. 
 

So, let’s say we acquire with IRST and need to IFF, or acquire with radar and go to silent running with IRST? After all, there are no simple radar and IRST on/off switches like FC3 leads us to expect. What I’ve figured out so far is……..

TP (IRST) mode: 

Switches to radar if Fox 1 selected 

Permanently switches to radar if Press lock before laser range 

RL mode: 

Select Fox 2 and move SUV knob to TP will switch to TP leading

IF TP selected and entered RL by selecting Fox 1, selectingFox 2 will go back to TP leading 

Its possible TP may be forced temporarily by lowering gun trigger

I also have a hunch that even without the cooperation switch, Fox 1 selection might just switch to radar no matter what. Manuals mention this frequently enough. And Su-27 does same thing. 
 

Also, complications that, I don’t know for sure but it’s possible that even without interaction/coop switch the radar may take up to 8 seconds to range an IRST target beyond laser range. Or it might be instant as long as coop switch is on

It’s a shame it can’t IFF while doing its 3 seconds ranging pulses……

So, if out of Fox 1, sucks to be you 

If out of fox2, also sucks to be you! 
 

I wonder if you fire your last fox 1, it switches to TP, you lose TP lock, then it switch back to radar as long as coop switch is forward

It’ll be interesting to see how it’s implemented on release! It’s the big unknown for me along with things like “will RWR be able to tell you about missile launches” and “will RWR actually put PD fighters in medium range SAM category beyond 20 km, or both categories light up.” 

[Кош]

Bear in mind your IRST range will be in the ballpark of 10 km now unless you're looking at an afterburner from behind since it's a R-60 seeker with extra steps IRL. They had to make a dogfight sensor with big FOV and working in any position in space.

Time to say goodbye to IRST DCSisms. For real world stealth tactic you need support from your C&C.

Edited August 7 by Кош

[AeriaGloria]

12 hours ago, Кош said:

Bear in mind your IRST range will be in the ballpark of 10 km now unless you're looking at an afterburner from behind since it's a R-60 seeker with extra steps IRL. They had to make a dogfight sensor with big FOV and working in any position in space.

Time to say goodbye to IRST DCSisms. For real world stealth tactic you need support from your C&C.

Well it’s 12 km head in against MiG-21, which is pretty small and one medium size engine. 
 

It’s more like an upscaled R-73 sensor, the R-60 uses same type of sensor as AIM-9B just better. The R-73 and KOLS use a cross type sensor that is much more flare resistant, and while R-73 sensor is a single sensor, the KOLS has 14 separate PbSe sensors, 4 in a cross and 10 in a line, and the cross ones spins at like 3000 rpm for accuracy 

Against side and tail aspect fighters in DCS, which seems to be pretty much in the ball park (can’t lock F-16 until within 10 km, worse then manual statement), I often get 35-45 km in DCS. So we’ll see.  It’s also exciting that we’ll be able to turn up or down the gain, might help acquire someone at long range with a clear background. 

Edited August 7 by AeriaGloria

[Drona]

Interesting stuff... keep it coming guys.

[AeriaGloria]

So…….. upon careful re reading of documents…… I  am enlightened to my past mistakes 
 

The sensor changing without using the knob switch is only in interaction/cooperation mode, (duh!!!). 
 

So let’s say you lock someone from TP scan mode and want to IFF. Best way is to select cooperation. Select fox 1, then un select it after seeing “C” or not. Or could switch fox1/coop sequence. 

Let’s say you enter lock from TP vertical scan, helmet, OPT, but don’t want to STT too long, you’ll have to lock with cooperation off. When you’re ready to IFF, select cooperation to see IFF status then switch coop off or it will keep giving them STT as long as laser range is present. 
 

Same with TP scan or even gun mode,  inside 6.5 km, once it gets a laser return radar just locks (now that it’s not needed for ranging). And HUD will show radar mode. 
 

 

[AeriaGloria]

.

 

Edited 13 hours ago by AeriaGloria

[Fighter29]

I don't know how this is implemented in DCS but If you apply all this to a real aircraft, then all your conclusions are wrong. For starters: when performing a combat sortie, the FRIEND-FOE ( свой-чужой )switch MUST be set to FOE ( чужой ) . You will never see the letter «C», you simply will not be able to lock on your own target. You cannot select FOX1 in TP scan mode because the missile indicator on 1 and 2 hardpoints will be absent. The IFF function does not work in any KOLS modes, even if the target is in the lock, regardless of which channel is primary. Any manipulation of the modes in the lock will only lead to a failure of the lock. The IFF function only works in the RL mode. 

[AeriaGloria]

6 hours ago, Fighter29 said:

I don't know how this is implemented in DCS but If you apply all this to a real aircraft, then all your conclusions are wrong. For starters: when performing a combat sortie, the FRIEND-FOE ( свой-чужой )switch MUST be set to FOE ( чужой ) . You will never see the letter «C», you simply will not be able to lock on your own target. You cannot select FOX1 in TP scan mode because the missile indicator on 1 and 2 hardpoints will be absent. The IFF function does not work in any KOLS modes, even if the target is in the lock, regardless of which channel is primary. Any manipulation of the modes in the lock will only lead to a failure of the lock. The IFF function only works in the RL mode. 

Yes I am only going off the MiG-29B technical manual (interaction/cooperation section) that ED has used before in the past and is sure to use this time. I have seen it wrong before, in regards to HMS stages of symbology. But oddly a university PowerPoint that details the radar says a similar thing about interaction/cooperation mode. 
 

For example it states that if flying with TP vertical scan, OPT, Helm, with interaction/cooperation on, once you get a lock and radar locks on additionally it will switch to radar HUD view. Such that using coop with those modes is enough for IFF. 

It also goes into logic with coop switch that if radar is not used for ranging quasi scan, it will STT
 

 

Edited 3 hours ago by AeriaGloria