Is it possible to make a mod which uses the Longbow which is already in DCS BS?

[Ivonq]

Hi Lads,

 

I've had a closer look at the Longbow which is already present in DCS BS, it is simply stunning. As DCS will focus on the A model, my question is:

 

Can we somehow make a mod and fly that gorgeous Longbow? It is already fully modelled (exterior) in the game.

 

This is my line of thought (below was a reply of mine somewhere down in this very thread. I thought that a bit of clarification was needed. That is why I put it here, on top):

 

Well, I'm just wondering, because we can get an extremely detailed cockpitmodel of the AH-64 for less than 150$ (roalty free). The AH-64D manual is up for grabs on the internet. We can speak to retired pilots. I have a full 360 degree cockpit reference of pilot and gunner seat of the AH-64D (Very High resolution...)

 

The exterior is already fully modelled. It shouldn't be too hard to adjust the existing flight model? Should it? I mean, they made the software modular, that means that its functions would be somewhat general to some extend. I'm just thinking out loud. I don't know how ED set up its modding tools...

 

Maybe when there is enough interest, which I'm convinced there is, we could ask ED to support a mod made AH-64D...under some kind of licence model.

 

How many people would be willing to work on such a mod? Alot I think, more than EDs team all together at a fraction of the cost...

 

And ED would only benefit from it as it would require a copy of their software/licence.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Ivonq

[Rhino4]

Short Answer: No.

Long Answer: ED is already making an AH-64A flyable for future release. It's rumored for the third release. There will never be a flyable D model.

[159th_Viper]

The closest you will get is to place the Model of the D over the Flyable A..........Does that make sense?

 

Same principle as the current ability to Fly the Admiral K around in LockOn......:pilotfly:

[joey45]

Same principle as the current ability to Fly the Admiral K around in LockOn......:pilotfly:

 

????? I don't get it.

[Vekkinho]

What Viper said is to replace a - let's see - Su-27 model with a Kuz model and you'll get your Kuz beyond mach 2!

[EtherealN]

It is already fully modded in the game.

 

Not it's not. It has an external model, but it does not have the same detail of aerodynamics simulation, nor is there an internal cockpit (why mod for an AH-64D when all you'll see is your Ka-50 cockpit?), nor is there the same level of high-fidelity modeling of all it's other systems.

 

In the big perspective of everything that would be required, the "fully modded" model and texture are a very very small part of the total job needed.

 

This is something that is often misunderstood - that something is "already in" in the guise of an AI vehicle doesn't mean that you just flip a switch and you'll have everything you need to fly it as a player. You can probably trick the sim into displaying the wrong model on the screen, but you'll still be flying a Ka-50 and unless you're prepared to do a truly gargantuan job all you'll see is still a Ka-50 cockpit. And that's a cockpit that doesn't have the right systems so you won't be getting to use any hellfires or radar dishes anyhow. ;)

 

So well, I understand the desire to fly the Longbow, but if things pan out the way rumor makes us expect we'll have the AH-64A at some point anyhow, and that's a nice beast as well.

[Ivonq]

Not it's not. It has an external model, but it does not have the same detail of aerodynamics simulation, nor is there an internal cockpit (why mod for an AH-64D when all you'll see is your Ka-50 cockpit?), nor is there the same level of high-fidelity modeling of all it's other systems.

 

In the big perspective of everything that would be required, the "fully modded" model and texture are a very very small part of the total job needed.

 

This is something that is often misunderstood - that something is "already in" in the guise of an AI vehicle doesn't mean that you just flip a switch and you'll have everything you need to fly it as a player. You can probably trick the sim into displaying the wrong model on the screen, but you'll still be flying a Ka-50 and unless you're prepared to do a truly gargantuan job all you'll see is still a Ka-50 cockpit. And that's a cockpit that doesn't have the right systems so you won't be getting to use any hellfires or radar dishes anyhow. ;)

 

So well, I understand the desire to fly the Longbow, but if things pan out the way rumor makes us expect we'll have the AH-64A at some point anyhow, and that's a nice beast as well.

 

I have to disagree, see below:

 

Well, I'm just wondering, because we can get an extremely detailed cockpitmodel of the AH-64 for less than 150$ (roalty free). The AH-64D manual is up for grabs on the internet. We can speak to retired pilots. I have a full 360 degree cockpit reference of pilot and gunner seat of the AH-64D (Very High resolution...)

 

The exterior is already fully modelled. It shouldn't be too hard to adjust the existing flight model? Should it? I mean, they made the software modular, that means that its functions would be somewhat general to some extend. I'm just thinking out loud. I don't know how ED set up its modding tools...

 

Maybe when there is enough interest, which I'm convinced there is, we could ask ED to support a mod made AH-64D...under some kind of licence model.

 

How many people would be willing to work on such a mod? Alot I think, more than EDs team all together at a fraction of the cost...

 

And ED would only benefit from it as it would require a copy of their software/licence.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Ivonq

[AlphaOneSix]

The AH-64D manual is up for grabs on the internet.

 

No it isn't. Or more to the point, if it is, it is in violation of the current classification of the manual.

[joey45]

That Manual is not everything..

 

It says SECRET on top and bottom of every page...

 

What you see on the internet is not everything. The have held back alot of info... and I mean ALOT.

[Ivonq]

No it isn't. Or more to the point, if it is, it is in violation of the current classification of the manual.

 

It is, mate, ..... might be a breach, I don't know, but it is out there.

[joey45]

It is, mate, ..... might be a breach, I don't know, but it is out there.

 

It wouldn't have everything ED would need to make a Sim on the same scale of BS.

 

EDIT: where is it then.

[Ivonq]

It wouldn't have everything ED would need to make a Sim on the same scale of BS.

 

EDIT: where is it then.

 

Seeing the earlier remarks it wouldn't be wise for me to state such a thing. Do your own search and one will find...

[sharkforce]

im willing to bet it would be possible if ED supplied the modding community with the tools to do the task, but the simple fact is ED wants to make aircraft for $$$ and community made aircraft would not pass their "study sim" quality. question to ED, if not the ah-64D can the community make any aircraft flyable at all or is this forbidden? i understand if you guys dont want the game turning into FSX but you should let the customers do what they want with their game after all they payed for it.

[159th_Viper]

im willing to bet it would be possible if ED supplied the modding community with the tools to do the task, but the simple fact is ED wants to make aircraft for $$$ and community made aircraft would not pass their "study sim" quality. question to ED, if not the ah-64D can the community make any aircraft flyable at all or is this forbidden? i understand if you guys dont want the game turning into FSX but you should let the customers do what they want with their game after all they payed for it.

 

You need to elaborate what you mean by 'can the community make any aircraft flyable at all'.

 

Is that a cursory 'Model-Swap', ie a 64D over a 64A, with Attendant 64A Cockpit, Avionics and FM etc etc, or a whole new Flyable modelled from scratch, again with attendant FM, Avionics and Cockpit?

 

If the latter, have you explored the extent of the Tools already provided by Eagle Dynamics as per the Following post?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=31052

 

If so, you need to elaborate in what areas/to what extent these tools provided are lacking in whatever your endevour entails. To broadly state that ED can, but won't, is just not good enough..........;)

 

And Yeah - you need to familiarise yourself with the EULA Para 2.1:

 

2. Ownership

 

2.1 The Program is Licensed, not sold, for your use. This Licence confers no Title or Ownership in the program and should not be construed as a Sale of any Rights in the Program. This license shall also apply to any Patches or Updates you may obtain from TFC for the Program.

 

 

Welcome to the Forums :)

[sharkforce]

You need to elaborate what you mean by 'can the community make any aircraft flyable at all'.

 

Is that a cursory 'Model-Swap', ie a 64D over a 64A, with Attendant 64A Cockpit, Avionics and FM etc etc, or a whole new Flyable modelled from scratch, again with attendant FM, Avionics and Cockpit?

 

If the latter, have you explored the extent of the Tools already provided by Eagle Dynamics as per the Following post?

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=31052

 

If so, you need to elaborate in what areas/to what extent these tools provided are lacking in whatever your endevour entails. To broadly state that ED can, but won't, is just not good enough..........;)

 

And Yeah - you need to familiarise yourself with the EULA Para 2.1:

 

2. Ownership

 

2.1 The Program is Licensed, not sold, for your use. This Licence confers no Title or Ownership in the program and should not be construed as a Sale of any Rights in the Program. This license shall also apply to any Patches or Updates you may obtain from TFC for the Program.

 

 

Welcome to the Forums :)

i was referring to the latter and

thanks for linking that post, I was under the belief that we wouldn't be able to build our own "modules" or as i like to call them flyable aircraft... if i read that link correctly those 3rd party development packges or SDK's should be all that one would need to do this? are these tools even available now? that post was over a year ago.... what exactly is the hold up with getting them to the modding community?

 

that last bit you mentioned about the EULA is very ambiguous. They mention DCS BS is licensed but not sold?? im pretty sure its lawyery talk for you cant buy a copy of the game and go sell the game as your own. as in you dont magically become the rights-holder to the IP or is it like the iphone where its against the apple eula to jailbreak your iphone but millions still do and it isn't illegal in any court to do so.

Edited August 21, 2009 by sharkforce

[159th_Viper]

......that last bit you mentioned about the EULA is very ambiguous. They mention DCS BS is licensed but not sold?? im pretty sure its lawyery talk for you cant buy a copy of the game and go sell the game as your own. as in you dont magically become the rights-holder to the IP

 

Not ambigous at all :)

 

To put it simply - you are in effect 'Renting' the Software subject to certain conditions. You have a Limited Right only in relation to the product as opposed to Ownership where your Right would have been absolute.

 

Think of it as a Lease Agreement ;)

[159th_Viper]

.... what exactly is the hold up with getting them to the modding community?

 

Maybe no-one has actually asked for them?

[sharkforce]

Not ambigous at all :)

 

To put it simply - you are in effect 'Renting' the Software subject to certain conditions. You have a Limited Right only in relation to the product as opposed to Ownership where your Right would have been absolute.

 

Think of it as a Lease Agreement ;)

an excuse for ED to take away the game from you if they dont fancy what you're doing.

[sharkforce]

Maybe no-one has actually asked for them?

really? i'm sure lots of people would love to get their hands on those tools/plugins

[Panzertard]

an excuse for ED to take away the game from you if they dont fancy what you're doing.

If you take a look at other EULA's of software you find in the shops around the net / place you live, you'll notice that this is an industry standard.

License to lease and use - you never buy any software.

[sharkforce]

If you take a look at other EULA's of software you find in the shops around the net / place you live, you'll notice that this is an industry standard.

License to lease and use - you never buy any software.

right and when exactly is that ever exercised? its just crap thrown into a text file that no one reads

[159th_Viper]

an excuse for ED to take away the game from you if they dont fancy what you're doing.

 

Quite Right.....Same principle that lets the Landlord take away your House if you Fail to pay the Rent ;)

 

 

right and when exactly is that ever exercised? its just crap thrown into a text file that no one reads

 

Contrary to popular belief, Ignorance of the Law is No Excuse. You'll be well advised to always read all the Fine-Print in all facets of everyday life :)

[sharkforce]

Quite Right.....Same principle that lets the Landlord take away your House if you Fail to pay the Rent ;)

i just don't see how that analogy applies to a game that i own. this isnt a pay per month mmorpg, you pay for the game , you get the game to keep forever as long as starforce does'nt lock you out.

[Panzertard]

i just don't see how that analogy applies to a game that i own. this isnt a pay per month mmorpg, you pay for the game , you get the game to keep forever as long as starforce does'nt lock you out.

 

I think it may be better to use a new thread for Copyright / EULA / licensing - otherwise this thead will head down the drain pretty quickly. ;)

[159th_Viper]

i just don't see how that analogy applies to a game that i own. this isnt a pay per month mmorpg, you pay for the game , you get the game to keep forever as long as starforce does'nt lock you out.

 

Dude, you never have and never will OWN the game......;)

 

 

At most, you have paid for the Limited Use and Enjoyment of the game, subject to Terms and Conditions. Failure to comply with said Terms and Conditions can lead to your Limited Right being Revoked.