Questions from a newbie in process of RTFMing.

[Itkovian]

Good day.

 

I just got the sim 3 days ago, and while I am very much in the process of RTFM (and ordered a printed copy as well), I do have some questions from time to time and thought I should just make a thread for them (instead of hijacking another *Grin*).

 

So, here is a question:

 

I have read in the newbie thread that it is recommended to hold the trimmer when making a course change, because otherwise you end up fighting the AP, yet the FAQ entry on trimming says it is advisable to just quickly press/release the trim once the course has been changed.

 

My question therefore is: which is correct? What should I do when I am in need of urgent maneuvering?

 

Thank you.

 

Itkovian

[Eddie]

Hold the trim down when maneuvering, and release when you're stabilised, things are much smoother that way.

[Itkovian]

I'd like to point out however that I have a FF joystick, so I actually feel less control when I press the trim button (not resistance at all, basically).

 

But my point is, the post that mentionned fighting the AP said that it probably would be fixed in a patch... do we know if that's been fixed, or am I always fighting the AP if I'm not pressing the trim button?

 

And thank you for the reply, it's nice to see such a helpful community.

 

Itkovian

[joey45]

What AP settings have you got on???

[Itkovian]

Oh, I'm not actually flying the thing yet... or rather I have and know how the trim feels, but figuring out how trim works is about the only thing I've learned so far (aside from how to Slam Into Ground). This is a theoretical section. I'm just seeing two posts that contradict each other.

 

In the FAQ thread, it says it is best to press and release trim as that's what actual pilots use, whereas in the newbie thread it says to keep trim pressed, but that it may be fixed in the patch.

 

I use FF, and pressing the trim is definitely a huge change, as it suddenly releases all pressure on the stick, so if I do need to maneuver like that it does make steering more difficult (because the stick is floating freely).

 

Thank you.

 

Itkovian

[joey45]

I use FF, and pressing the trim is definitely a huge change, as it suddenly releases all pressure on the stick, so if I do need to maneuver like that it does make steering more difficult (because the stick is floating freely).

 

Thank you.

 

Itkovian

 

It should do that.

 

or am I always fighting the AP if I'm not pressing the trim button?

you shouldn't trim if the AP is flying the copter or do you mean the dampers

[GGTharos]

If you are using an FF stick, try the real pilot's aproach:

Move a short distance, trim, move a short distance, trim, etc etc.

 

In other words trim before the forces on the stick are big enough that you end up 'slapping' the stick to the side when you finally trim.

[Itkovian]

If you are using an FF stick, try the real pilot's aproach:

Move a short distance, trim, move a short distance, trim, etc etc.

 

In other words trim before the forces on the stick are big enough that you end up 'slapping' the stick to the side when you finally trim.

 

So press the trim button as I push the stick around? Or is that only when I am making a course change or some such?

 

Or if you prefer, say I notice I'm taking fire and need to do some evasive maneuvers, what should I do concerning trim and the likes?

 

Itkovian

[GGTharos]

No, push it after you move the stick, but, if you are going to deflect the stick a lot, make it several push-trim motions instead of one big one. This is for normal flight when you throw the stick relatively slowly.

 

If you need to do evasive maneuvers, I suggest holding trim down - there's no clear answer to this one. The way you should think of this is as follows ...

 

If you

1. Must hold the stick in a certain position for a prolonged amount of time (this includes a slow throw and return to center as you're doing a turn for example)

2. Need to re-set the autopilot to the new attitude

 

Move, trim. If the throw is long, break it up into multiple move-trim motions.

 

With the patch the autopilot should no longer fight you in a violent turn, so throw the heli onto its side, trim, turn, trim, get upright, trim.

Edited August 28, 2009 by GGTharos

[joey45]

1) fly the desired flight heading, ALT and speed and trim

 

2) get out of Dodge.. Who Gives A.F about trim.

 

EDIT: beaten by GG

Edited August 28, 2009 by joey45

[Itkovian]

With the patch the autopilot should no longer fight you in a violent turn, so throw the heli onto its side, trim, turn, trim, get upright, trim.

 

This fix in the new patch is not related to the new trimming method, correct?

 

I gather this new trimming method only matters for people with no FF joystick, since they need to re-center their stick, while with FF the trim just holds the stick in position.

 

If yes, then good, that means I can just throw my stick around and not have to keep the trim key pressed.

 

Incidentally, the maneuver you just explained, do you basically mean rolling onto the side then pulling back on the cyclic to turn quickly, like pulling a tight turn on an airplane?

 

I imagine you can't pull the turn for long before you need to get upright, mind you. :)

 

Itkovian

[GGTharos]

Correct, the new trimming method (And the old) matters only to people without ff sticks.

 

And yes, that is the maneuver I described :) You can pull as long as you can maintain airspeed - how long you maintain airspeed depends on the g's you're pulling, and the bank angle also depend on the number of g's you wish to pull. Just like in a fixed wing aircraft (unless you're close to hover).

[sinelnic]

If I may give my opinion, I learned much more about how to handle the chopper by using the FD (Flight Director). In my early days (about yesterday) AP was very confusing and I found myself not understanding WTF I had to do to make the thing do wahtever I intended.

[joey45]

or just turn on the dampers, minus ALT Hold, and fly by the stick.... great fun.

[Itkovian]

From what I understand, the whole point of all these flight assistance systems is so you can spend more of your attention on using the combat systems, so I'll try to work with them (whatever it is that the real pilots do, I want to do it *grin*).

 

Itkovian

[GGTharos]

Yep - but, I'll give credit to this: Turning ont he flight director is reasonably useful as if training on a training chopper.

[Itkovian]

Another question:

 

Is there a good description somewhere on how to fly a pattern, like the training mission?

 

The training mission sounds good, but unfortunately there seems to be a bug where the camera zoom gets stuck, and so I don't get to see where the cursor (which is automatically moved) is actually meant to point.

 

Where does it get this pattern, for example (I know it uses ADF, but I am rather murky on it).

 

Anyway, this is a great sim, and so far I have learned to start up the aircraft and do some basic flying (taxiing, takeoff, landing, hovering, though my flying is far from smooth *grin*).

 

Thank you.

 

Itkovian

[nemises]

I agree,

I'd love to know more about the correct procedures for pattern flying and approach ..

 

I understand (?) that the ATC portion of the game / messges to tower / traffic and landing pattern etc might be beeing looked at in later iterations of the DCS series though...

[sinelnic]

The Extended Flight Manual has beautifully described patterns with drawings and all

[Itkovian]

Is that the copy that is up for order on the website (which hopefully is on the way as we speak)?

 

Itkovian

[sinelnic]

That would be a very very similar copy yes- but the beautiful part only applies to mine :P

[Itkovian]

Allright, can't wait to get it.

 

For now, I'm trying to get at least one startup minor flight/landing a day, and also one lesson.

 

I also played the battle mission (just to check it out, given how it apparently eats resources), and got my first Vikhr kill (though tanks have proven a tough nut to crack).

 

That said, I'm having a bit of a bother with the training missions. Basically, the camera starts more zoomed in than the mission is made for, and I don't see anything that they do.

 

For example, in the ABRIS overview mission, when they zoom onto the ABRIS I only see the upper left corner of the screen, and so have no idea what is going on.

 

Has anybody run into that problem before?

 

Thank you.

 

Itkovian

[-Bazong-]

Odd bug there with the training missions.. I only had an issue where FF would'nt work correctly if I took control in a training mission.

 

Just wanted to add that which of the two trimmer options you choose does matter for the pedals/twistgrip even if you use an FF stick, unless you have FF pedals offcourse :)

I'd also recommend the Flight Director, I almost allways use it in combat, even when doing hovering attacks.. but that's up to personal preference I suppose (and I don't think that's how they do it IRL).

 

Happy flying!!