REVIEW: Logitech G940 by EcoDragon

[theGozr]

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=774&p=2174#p2174

 

Great to know please read!

[sobek]

Sounds discomforting. I'd like to try this thing out myself, but unfortunately all of the stores in my proximity would have to order it.

[Triggerhappy69]

I find it strange.... ?

 

Couldn't help but notice he's comparisment with the MSFFB stick and it's "stone age" technology, that up to now seems to be unsurpassed..!?

 

How old is that Joystick anyway? And have Logitech, CH, Saitek and the others not learned anything from reading time and time again that the FFB is not presice enough arround the center.?

 

..even old dogs do learn new tricks from time to time..

[Vekkinho]

Yeah, a 15°-20° centerplay of the stick is not as precise as it should be...Even new TM Cougars suffer from centerplay but it's not that huge!

[sobek]

I find it strange.... ?

 

Couldn't help but notice he's comparisment with the MSFFB stick and it's "stone age" technology, that up to now seems to be unsurpassed..!?

 

I do own a MSFFB2 and it's one hell of a stick, even though it's really old by now. It's durable and after years of use, mine is still very precise. The only problem is, it's not a hotas. That's why i hoped for the Logitech.

 

However, the MSFFB2 does have this notchy feel to it that he describes, whether it's as strong as the g940s i do not know at present. I guess this comes from the torque characteristics of the electric motors used, because electric motors have droops in their torque when the coils pass their magnet counterparts.

[159th_Viper]

http://www.gozr.net/iocl/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=774&p=2174#p2174

 

Great to know please read!

 

Having regard to the previous published review, I cannot but wonder whether the above review was undertaken with a defective product. Differs so vastly from other User-Experience that it can only point to a Hardware-related issue.

[sobek]

Having regard to the previous published review, I cannot but wonder whether the above review was undertaken with a defective product. Differs so vastly from other User-Experience that it can only point to a Hardware-related issue.

 

Well, even if it's just one defective unit, it is nothing to be cheerful about :noexpression:

 

I'd still like to get one into my own hands. :cry:

[159th_Viper]

Well, even if it's just one defective unit, it is nothing to be cheerful about :noexpression:

 

Oh Hell Yeah tell me about it............Shortly after purchasing LockOn, I shelved my Cyborg Evo for a X52......and then another X52 and then a X52PRO..........All within the space of a coupla months. The Sheer Frustration.......:music_whistling: Time will tell, although in this technological day and age a 20-degree fault is hard to swallow and as such cannot personally take that submission seriously.

 

It's such a pity that one cannot Test-Drive these Flightsticks. Relying on a review, although purporting to be objective, will always contain an unhealthy amount of Subjectivity as far as I am concerned. No doubt going to be a dificult decision as to which product I will purchase........Leaning however to the Logitech purely because of my G25.

[blaster454]

So has no one received this and used it with BS enough to give a short review?

 

So far, the reviews have been at opposite ends of the spectrum almost ... some of that I can understand because flight controls are very personal and what may be great for one simmer is terrible for the next.

 

But there should be some information on how the FFB features work with BS. Is it better than manual trimming (either old or new)? Worse? The same?

 

What about general quality. Rugg's review said the quality was great but ECO-Dragon's review said the rudder pedals were "like rubber" ... is that the difference between pre-production models and production units? Or is it the difference between simmers expectations?

 

I guess I really want the G940 to be a viable product to be able to have the FFB features in BS. I do not have much faith in Saitek delivering a faultless X65 (either HW or SW) and I do want an FFB HOTAS solution.

 

I wonder if anyone who has these has yet looked at the "proprietary" connections of the throttle and pedals to the stick. I'm curious to see if they are really proprietary or USB-like connections with different connectors? I think Logitech made a mistake by forcing the whole G940 package as I am very satisfied with my Saitek pedals. Perhaps it's just a matter of tiome before someone figures out how to swap components in or out :smilewink:.

 

Anyway, if you have a G940 already and are flying BS, what are your initial impressions? You don't have to write a review or be an English major. I (we?) just want to know how you like it. Does it work? Or not?

 

And I have one on order either way I guess ... if amazon really is shipping them.

Edited September 7, 2009 by blaster454

[sobek]

But there should be some information on how the FFB features work with BS. Is it better than manual trimming (either old or new)? Worse? The same?

 

Once you tried, a FFB stick is THE ONLY way to fly BS, because the stick is the indicator for what your control surfaces are doing (no trim reset and the likes necessary).

[crazysundog]

Once you tried, a FFB stick is THE ONLY way to fly BS, because the stick is the indicator for what your control surfaces are doing (no trim reset and the likes necessary).

 

 

+1 :joystick:

[CyBerkut]

I wonder if anyone who has these has yet looked at the "proprietary" connections of the throttle and pedals to the stick. I'm curious to see if they are really proprietary or USB-like connections with different connectors? I think Logitech made a mistake by forcing the whole G940 package as I am very satisfied with my Saitek pedals. Perhaps it's just a matter of tiome before someone figures out how to swap components in or out :smilewink:.

 

Anyway, if you have a G940 already and are flying BS, what are your initial impressions? You don't have to write a review or be an English major. I (we?) just want to know how you like it. Does it work? Or not?

 

And I have one on order either way I guess ... if amazon really is shipping them.

 

 

Well, this guy doesn't seem too happy so far:

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=44942

 

As for your Saitek pedals, they are USB aren't they? If so, you can use them with the G940's HOTAS, as DCS:BS will recognize multiple controllers. Just turn off the axis you don't use in DCS:BS options. You can probably run the G940 without its rudder pedals hooked up, too.

[TX-EcoDragon]

To answer someone's question about the notchy feel of the MSFFB2: yes the MSFFB2 I have has a little bit of that but it's minimal enough to not impact precision or immersion. . .it's like sand in the mechanism - the G940 is like pebbles.

 

I've only had the MSFFB2 for about a week now (from eBay, it's the model with the silver trigger) and the handle of that stick leaves a lot to be desired IMHO, as does the overall strength of the FFB and the rather short range of motion of the MSFFB 2, but the feel of the FFB itself is smooth and progressive from stop to stop and corner to corner, with a positive but deadzone free centering character which is much like a real aircraft, and that is rare in most PC joysticks in my experience (and I've got quite a collection).

 

As far as if I have a defective one. . .well, I have no idea. . .I've just got this one to look at. I wanted to see a display model but there was none so I just grabbed a box off the shelf. I do have a Logitech G25 wheel which uses the same motors, and it absolutely reminds me of the G940 with respect to the deadzone and the way the FFB ramps up with a slight lag once you hit the point where you're out of the deadzone. Same with the notchy feel. I did't put a protractor up to the stick to measure the deadzone, but I did measure the displacement at the center of the silver hat on the stick at just under an inch moving left to right across the deadzone.

 

In the driving sims the deadzone is not as big an issue to me (though it did bug me and I did spend hours tweaking RealFeel plugins and such to minimize it - which also can cause the FFB to get into an oscillation if the deadzone is too small), neither is the notchy feel - in fact that G25 is really pretty impressive for the price I paid (100 less than the G940) but in an airplane or a helicopter those things just won't cut it. . .at least for joystick snobs like I apparently am.

 

The rudder pedals are simply not well built - the design of the mechanism needs to be reworked IMHO and the plastics used are just too soft and sloppy. I applaud Logitech for being the first to bring us an FFB HOTAS - and really don't want to "bash" a product that caters to serious simmers. . .I'm just telling it like I see it. I think the next version they make could be absolutely awesome with only subtle changes to the stick FFB and if they use some more solid materials in the rudder pedals (yes I'd like to be able to adjust the spacing of the pedals too - but that's probably just a fantasy).

 

Oh and I haven't tried it in BlackShark yet. I did try it in FSX and was dismayed to find the FFB forces are backwards! This seems to be an FSX issue though. The Logitech software really should include some sort of FFB reversal tick box in the profiler (if it does I've not found it yet).

Edited September 8, 2009 by TX-EcoDragon

[-Bazong-]

Very disapointing :(

I had hoped this would be just the thing to replace my 6 year old msFFB2 and ms racing pedals.

I really hope the "centerplay around the trim position issue" gets resolved (it's nowhere near that much on my msFFB2 I think), as for now I'll be looking for a fresh (or slightly used) msFFB2..

[blaster454]

...

As for your Saitek pedals, they are USB aren't they? If so, you can use them with the G940's HOTAS, as DCS:BS will recognize multiple controllers. Just turn off the axis you don't use in DCS:BS options. You can probably run the G940 without its rudder pedals hooked up, too.

 

 

:doh: That's me smacking my forehead and saying DOH! :smilewink:

 

Such a simple solution and here I am sitting trying to figure out a way around the pedals. Yes! I will keep the Saitek pedals and I think all the flight sims I'm flying right now do recognize multiple USB devices.

 

Thanks for waking me up CyBerkut :thumbup:

[CyBerkut]

:doh: That's me smacking my forehead and saying DOH! :smilewink:

 

Such a simple solution and here I am sitting trying to figure out a way around the pedals. Yes! I will keep the Saitek pedals and I think all the flight sims I'm flying right now do recognize multiple USB devices.

 

Thanks for waking me up CyBerkut :thumbup:

 

:) Glad to be of service, blaster!

 

It's easy to forget stuff like that... especially when we get controllers offered on the market that tie multiple devices together. That sort of thing was more important with older software that only recognizes one controller.

 

I'm hoping both Logitech's G940 and Saitek's upcoming FFB HOTAS (supposedly X-65) both prove to be worthy offerings. Seeing FFB HOTAS rigs for sale is a step in a positive direction for the market. I remain disappointed that (in light of DCS:BS trim capabilities) we don't have FFB rudder pedals available, but maybe that will change. For now, I have picked up a Saitek R660 FFB wheel, and plan to rig up FFB rudder pedals using that, in due time.

[Triggerhappy69]

I guess they put in a 15-20 degree dead zone to work arround the balance problem of the stick when it's in the outer region? It's the only reason I can think of execpt using a large dead zone to hide an unprecise mechanism?

 

... or to keep the strain of the FFB motors down when playing games that require rapid sudden movement arround the center of the stick..? I don't know..

 

What I DO know however is that for whatever reason they make a FFB stick with such a MASSIVE deadzone, it should be equally simple for them to make it possible for Flightsim users to change it..!? But this feature they have left out..? And as such they keep produsing "teaser" joysticks for us..?

 

Joysticks that are good enough to make us see how perfect it COULD BE.. but not quite good enough to get us there..?

 

I would certainly sacrifice life length expecansy of the HOTAS for having one that works perfect..! Or maybe they could make an upgrade kit with better sensors and mechanics with ball bearings all over if that's the problem..

 

... but then again.. that's just my thoughts.. And I don't have to consider marketing budgets and R&D expenses compared to expected sales of such a kit.. I just MOD the stuff untill it works to my liking, or is broken and trashed..

[crazysundog]

To answer someone's question about the notchy feel of the MSFFB2: yes the MSFFB2 I have has a little bit of that but it's minimal enough to not impact precision or immersion. . .it's like sand in the mechanism - the G940 is like pebbles.

 

I've only had the MSFFB2 for about a week now (from eBay, it's the model with the silver trigger) and the handle of that stick leaves a lot to be desired IMHO, as does the overall strength of the FFB and the rather short range of motion of the MSFFB 2, but the feel of the FFB itself is smooth and progressive from stop to stop and corner to corner, with a positive but deadzone free centering character which is much like a real aircraft, and that is rare in most PC joysticks in my experience (and I've got quite a collection).

 

 

Oh and I haven't tried it in BlackShark yet. I did try it in FSX and was dismayed to find the FFB forces are backwards! This seems to be an FSX issue though. The Logitech software really should include some sort of FFB reversal tick box in the profiler.

 

 

Thanks for the review....but it sure sounds like your FFB is messed up...and from what I've heard there is a box to tick in the software to reverse the forces...(from Logitech_Mark on one of these forums!) It doesn't sound like you have taken a very deep look into the software, hopefully you can adjust your FFB settings to be more suitable.

[huteng]

MSFFB2 also has a wide range of deadzone in default set,but it can be changed by controller software.i hope G940 also can be changed

[TX-EcoDragon]

Thanks for the review....but it sure sounds like your FFB is messed up...and from what I've heard there is a box to tick in the software to reverse the forces...(from Logitech_Mark on one of these forums!) It doesn't sound like you have taken a very deep look into the software, hopefully you can adjust your FFB settings to be more suitable.

 

It might very well be messed up. . .by all means do your own research and decision making here everyone! If I've got a dud of a stick I'd hate to see people not getting one based on my writing about a single faulty one.

 

That said, I know the deadzone is an issue with the Logitech G25 as well, and it does use the same FFB motors and there's no solution yet for that as far as I know so I'm not sure it's that simple, but if it is - well, maybe I need to replace this one and see. Work is in full swing again so I'll pick another one up in a week or so.

 

As far as reversing forces, I see a newer profiler version out - perhaps it will have the option, or perhaps I'm just not finding it, but the forces tabs do not have an option to reverse them in the profiler, I've looked in the cfg files for FSX, search FLightSim.com forums, and every place I can think of in the profiler and windows game controller menus. . if the option is in another location I've not found it. I've searched the help files with no returns either. I posted on the Logitech blog about FSX and they simply told me the forces work well in FSX so perhaps I need to try that with the month newer software than what came on the CD.

 

MSFFB2 also has a wide range of deadzone in default set,but it can be changed by controller software.i hope G940 also can be changed

 

I have no software for my MSFFB2, it's just plug and play (I'd really like to boost the FFB strength but finding software that works with this stick has been tough) and the deadzone of the stick is near enough to zero to not be obvious to me.

Edited September 8, 2009 by TX-EcoDragon

[Logitech_Mark]

Hi,

 

I'm glad to see some feedback here and am happy to comment.

 

First, it is important to clarify some terminology. There is ZERO deadzone in the stick X and Y axes, unless you add it in the profile. That means the stick registers movement throught its range.

 

What users are encountering is the force feedback spring centering. Our base driver has some play in the center, to keep the motor from fighting itself on center. Once the simulation starts, all stick centering and force feedback comes from the game settings. G940 is doing exactly what it is told. Now that G940 is available to software developers, we expect to work with them to tune the sims to the G940 capabilities. There is no physical or mechanical limitation to eliminating the play from the center.

 

You can force centering in all games by checking the checkbox in the force feedback settings to enable center spring all the time. There is no check box to reverse forces. We haven't encountered any games with them reversed. FSX forces are sometimes a bit laggy, which can give the impression of being reversed. Unfortunately, there is no one at ACES studio to work with, as there was when we started the project.

 

There is a more recent software build out, published after the G940 went into production. The production version was 5.06. 5.07 is available for download, but not yet linked to G940. You can get the proper download by following the support links from the G27 racing wheel.

 

We are making further improvements, and I'll post the notice when the next update comes out.

[blaster454]

Well, I'm going to try it anyway. Amazon has shipped and it should be here Wednesday afternoon. Unfortunately, I have to go to my sister's house in north central PA to dogsit for the weekend. I'm carrying along the laptop and my ham radio gear so I may not take the G940 with me (although I do have DCS:BS loaded on the laptop).

 

Unfortunately, I have a 64-bit Vista OS on the laptop too and I understand Logitech's 64-bit driver may not be working correctly yet ... I'll have to test.

 

My rationale is simple really ... I want to try the FFB on BS and I don't have a lot of confidence that Saitek will put out an X65 system either on time or with good software (drivers and profiler).

[TX-EcoDragon]

Thanks very much for the feedback Mark - that's good news! I'm working with the devs on Rise of Flight for the most part right now, and there are changes coming regularly for FFB code and joystick scaling, trim etc. Hopefully someone at neoqb has a G940 and if these issues are in fact from that sim not having a G940 profile then they will probably get that sorted soon. One of the people I have been testing RoF with and flying with coms has a prototype/pre-release G940 and he has been happy with his. I'm going to try this in a couple other sims shortly.

 

I realized that perhaps the FFB reversal in FSX might be a software thing. If my searches on the web are any indication MSFS has a long history of reversed FFB or perhaps as you said very laggy FFB and in fact there are payware programs to fix it for other sticks which have the same issues. Basically any input you make will be augmented by the FFB so flying without PIOs is dang near impossible. . .basic aircraft control is out of the question when you've got the forces of this thing cranked up.

 

I have not yet enabled the centering spring as I was under the impression it will force center the stick at the mechanical center point and not aerodynamic center as dictated in the sim so aircraft trimspeeds and handling will be impacted from this. I might be mistaken about that, I'll try it too.

 

I'm going to try the new software right now.

 

Thanks again Mark.

Edited September 9, 2009 by TX-EcoDragon

[TX-EcoDragon]

Well - the new software didn't change the FFB deadzones in RoF or the problems with FSX. . .though it seems Microsoft is to blame for the FSX issues and perhaps with time the dev team at RoF can tweak things for that sim.

 

It seems like the only way to get FSX to be flyable is to enable the Centering Spring and then go into the FSX controls menu and un-tick "Control Surfaces" in the Forces tab. This does seem to eliminate aerodynamic control surface centering and force changes with speed and surface deflection.

[crazysundog]

To make my MSFFB2 work properly in FSX, I check control surfaces and ground surfaces...and uncheck stick shaker, crashes and retractable landing gear. I fly helos a lot and have to do it this way, or i get a 'stiff' resistance.

 

Also, if you find you are getting that 'stiff' default feedback in game, you can go to options, and disable all feedback...load into the game, and reenter options and enable those two forces and it should work properly....like turning it off and on again i think.

 

Try that, it may solve some of your issues...if it does or doesn't I'd like to hear about it, because I am thinking of getting a G940!