Cheating

[TOMCATZ]

Hi,

 

I thinked much time about these theme and I have basically two options:

- Option one is to deinstall LockOn on and kick the box away

- Option two is to pack all my frustration into this thread

 

Well- Both options are bullshit but I dont want to silence my feelings even more time!

At first: I think that it is okay that we can upgrade some textures, 3D models, and modify some payloads if there is a way to control all of these changes and to give all the same possibility as well. I`m very thanksfull about people who construct models, sounds and textures for free in sometimes very very good quality.

 

But:

Some modifys aren`t good! I mean speacially the fact that it is possible to read out LUA-files and show it in a seperate programm simultanly! Same as for modify vectors of missiles, angles of RADAR areas and increase or decreasing limits of gravitation of missiles and aircrafts!

To change all these facts are simply cheating!

What to hell is the intention of these .... ideotes to write programms to see more them all the other members?! Is it a nice victory to kill other pilots with unfair methods?!

These guys are better pilots if they are able to write new programms to read out the enemy?!

 

So for examble:

I saw a Su-27 pilot shooted a ET missile without any lock about a range about 10clicks visually in a 3 a clock position from low to high. Before the missile impact- the other player quitted imediatelly. I saw these procedeure tree time in a half hour from different pilots. All of them joined the game 1 minute later again!!! I wasn`t able to lock an enemy target with my Su27 RADAR witch had a range about 20 clicks hot and level at some servers!

I saw pilots wich pressed the print key a lot while a missile was on the way! I saw Flanker pilots wich intercepted a medium flying target for range about 100km!

The answers allways the same:

"My LockOn was frozen- sorry" (After quitting imediatelly)

"Lag"

"I saw you visually" (About a range of 100clicks?!)

"G-Limit works here"

" locked you with EOS" (frontal about 50 km?!"

"I saw the missile :) " (from six a clock low?!)

 

As for the future I won`t join any servers wich using modifications. Graphic mods should be okay- the rest is bullshit! Who is not able to use the given options by LOMAC can switch to other simulations ... Maybe. Some of some called "modifications" simply destroy LockOn and hurt the community!!!

 

"possible badest" pilot of the world of LOMAC,

TOMCATZ

Edited October 23, 2009 by TOMCATZ

[Fahrenheit92]

I fully agree with you Tom! Maybe some of the Modders can develope something like an Anti Cheat Programm. If you like to I would support you with doing this!

 

Me and the v52nd Fighter Wing are strictly against cheating!!!!

 

Greetz from Germany, Fahrenheit

[Kuky]

Understand your frustration completely and fully agree with you... I hope 1.13 fixes this and this LUA scripting should not be possible, at least no one should be able to extract any data from what you would not see in regular ways and from that you should only be able to extract your own flight data for instruments for those building cockpit displays... nothing else

Edited October 23, 2009 by Kuky

[BrumTx]

Thank Goodness someone has finally spoken out about this situation. I have only played online about 10 times and each time "something" happened to the other pilot. I gave up and now just make missions so I don't have to listen to the BS. Graphics Mods such as those from Tomcatz to 3GO are the only type of mod that should be allowed.

[159th_Viper]

It stands to reason that the SIM would be Hacked, Exploited and Generally FUBAR'd Six Ways from Sunday............Why?

 

Why Not? You'll always have Dimwits with a God-Complex running around, reflecting on a Stats-Board to see their E-Penor enlarge proportionally with the amount of 'Kills' they rack up. They're not gonna work for the Kills if they can be obtained by 'Nefarious' means. It's just Human Nature and unfortunately it's always gonna happen.

 

What is Bothersome is the extent of the exploits and the sudden increase in awareness thereof. Should one not, in an Objective and Constructive manner, Highlight all the Exploits and proffer Possible solutions to said exploits? Doing so would be a step towards identifying all the problems that currently exist and get the into the open which would in turn server a two-fold purpose: Heightened Awareness would possibly negate untoward behaviour and lead to implementation of solutions by the Dev Team not previously contemplated.

 

Until then I would submit that 'Safe' servers be identified and more Inter-Squad matches/Informal Gatherings be organised. With a wee bit of work then at least you'll be able to Fly with whom you can Trust......Lesser of Two Evils I would have Thought.

[BrumTx]

Until then I would submit that 'Safe' servers be identified and more Inter-Squad matches/Informal Gatherings be organised. With a wee bit of work then at least you'll be able to Fly with whom you can Trust......Lesser of Two Evils I would have Thought.

 

Well said Viper, especially the

 

" Lesser of two evils "

[Frostie]

Hi Tomcatz,

Same as for modify vectors of missiles, angles of RADAR areas and increase or decreasing limits of gravitation of missiles and aircrafts!

Explain how this is done online please, you seem to know something most believe impossible. And its not through LRM.

So for examble:

I saw a Su-27 pilot shooted a ET missile without any lock about a range about 10clicks visually in a 3 a clock position from low to high. Before the missile impact- the other player quitted imediatelly. I saw these procedeure tree time in a half hour from different pilots. All of them joined the game 1 minute later again!!!

Missiles get madogged more often than not its built into the game and just an exploit of reality. This has been done to death. You can't police it as everyone does it in one form or another be it ET or ARH.

If you can't see a bandit visually at 10 kliks then you need to turn down your antialiasing or buy some glasses.

As for quitting it happens and it sucks but at the end of the day you'd still be dead if he didn't quit.

I wasn`t able to lock an enemy target with my Su27 RADAR witch had a range about 20 clicks hot and level at some servers!

Sorry but this is notching your radar update is delayed. Ive also heard the one about disappearing aircraft, in reality the bandit just turned away.

I saw pilots wich pressed the print key a lot while a missile was on the way!

Most probably lag you didn't literally see him press the printscreen key did you, lag happens more often when missiles are in the air.

I saw Flanker pilots wich intercepted a medium flying target for range about 100km!

I've killed bandits over 100km with ER, it has long legs. The flanker radar sees bandits 120km away.

Ive also seen people claim its cheating when they get killed over 70km which is naive BS.

 

These little cheat claims do the multiplayer community no good, they just create more hysteria by uninformed people. There are ways of cheating this game if you fancy carriers flying around your world but there are plenty of explanations for things which wrongly get called cheating.

Edited October 23, 2009 by Frostie

[golfsierra2]

How about making a black list with the names and squadrons and or HL servers that are 'suspicious' to say the least.

Sort of negative ranking.

 

I know, that proving pilots cheating on HL server ist pretty impossible, as not all the servers allow TacView recordings. One could try to record each flight on HL as track file, but would that work out ?

 

This black list also could me misused by simply frustrated noobs trying to discredit honest and true pilots.

 

I will look into a simple ranking system like adding / subtracting karma points of the forum.

Edited October 23, 2009 by golfsierra2

[GGTharos]

Yeah, so, how about not?

 

THere are people who can be proven to cheat, but this is in the vast, vast minority of cases.

 

Most times? People THINK they 'know' what's going on, but they actually have no real idea - I've seen simple things mislabeled as cheats. People who use a particular strategy (believe it or not, as simple as cruising at 50000' and dropping missiles on the enemy below has been at some time or another been labeled as a cheat) and so on and so forth.

[159th_Viper]

....Most times? People THINK they 'know' what's going on, but they actually have no real idea - I've seen simple things mislabeled as cheats....

 

Valid Point - Hence the need for an Objective and Constructive discussion Identifying the Variables and Attendant Features and/or Exploits. Not sure whether this is the right place for it, though.

 

At present all one has is Conjecture and Speculation which inevitably leads to Alpha Male A in one corner and Alpha Male B in the other corner, each wanting to ensure that the 'Opponent' Chokes on the other's Point-Of-View. What is lacking is a 'Definitive' objective explanation of sorts which one can have regard to if in doubt. Then again, might not remedy the situation at all, but might go a way to quell the Rampant Speculation that the Unknown inevitably Holds for us All.........

[GGTharos]

Here's my opinion from corner whatever :)

 

Valid Point - Hence the need for an Objective and Constructive discussion Identifying the Variables and Attendant Features and/or Exploits. Not sure whether this is the right place for it, though.

 

The problem here is not that 'exploits exist' but in what is considered an exploit.

 

In the vast majority of cases, the exploit/cheat/whatchumacallit is something that the game allows.

Head on barrel-rolling? Check

Head on chaffing? Check

Flaps down while flying at the speed of heat or dogfighting? Check

Flying at under 10 meters and maintaining offensive posture while the other guy can do nothing? Check

Maddoging certain missiles WHATSOEVER, and maddogging certain other ones with too high a pK? Check.

Seeing how fast you can press E so that the other guy starts screaming at you over the chat? Check :D

Shooting down Su-25's or A-10's to hear them whine about how you're not really a hero, and they're poor and defenseless and Fighters should go pick on something else in mixed servers? Check :D

People taking off from taxiways? Rearming/refueling at your base and shooting you down as you take off?

 

These are just some examples of what tickles people funny - they are called exploits and cheats, but they really aren't. Each single one of those can be dealt with - but none of this, for the most part, reflects reality.

 

Certain people insist that 'not flying realistically' is a cheat or exploit. It isn't. A decade ago, I had no bloody clue what a semblance of 'realistic flying' was, nor how missiles/radars/planes/whatevers are supposed to operate, and I have no idea why I'd be expected to have any idea, either.

 

All of the above is nothing more nor less than pure whining, and sure, I do it too.

 

Legitimate cheats and exploits, such as alterations of opposition's 3d models to look like a KC-10 or Kuz so you can see them from 50000000000000km are likely in the minority.

Alterations of missile characteristics are ridiculously rare (it's more likely you'll find a sly substitution of a missile rather than an alteration), substitution of illegic payloads more of an issue - but then, LRM fixes this nicely as is.

 

So then, what's left, and how do you tell, and how do you deal with it?

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

So for examble:

I saw a Su-27 pilot shooted a ET missile without any lock about a range about 10clicks visually in a 3 a clock position from low to high. Before the missile impact- the other player quitted imediatelly. I saw these procedeure tree time in a half hour from different pilots. All of them joined the game 1 minute later again!!!

Our =4c= server allows recording Tacview file, however it does it through LRM and the file is locked until you exit the game.

 

Nevertheless, if you see suspicious behavior, please report it on our forum:

http://www.4c-squad.rs/forum/index.php?showforum=84

 

Try to include Tacview file as well.

[159th_Viper]

....Shooting down Su-25's or A-10's to hear them whine about how you're not really a hero, and they're poor and defenseless and Fighters should go pick on something else in mixed servers? Check :D

 

:megalol:

[MoGas]

If you can't see a bandit visually at 10 kliks then you need to turn down your antialiasing or buy some glasses..

 

:megalol: :thumbup:

[TOMCATZ]

Hello

 

well, I never ever had or have a problem loose a fight. I was shooted down so often that I can call every fish of black sea by his name.

But I will not accept comments like:

 

Ive made a section in the LRM export.lua where the server can add more scripts.

Clients' own scripts in their own export.lua are now run automatically.

YODA

 

or:

 

Well LRM can export anything.

Right now it only exports truck status, but we could

essentially export the status of any object.

 

This is how AMRACT + LRM becomes so powerful.

YODA

 

I started with "Su27 Flanker" in 1996 and used simulations since over 10 years. I can work with my RADAR and my anti aliasing is pretty good. Of course it wasn`t possible to record tacviews to show what I mean! So- hited dogs barking.

 

@ =4c= Hajduk Veljko : Thanks a lot- I`ll visit your server in future. "Our =4c= server allows recording Tacview file, however it does it through LRM and the file is locked until you exit the game.

 

Nevertheless, if you see suspicious behavior, please report it on our forum" - sounds very good. Thanks a lot.

TOM

[GGTharos]

You will not accept them because you do not actually know what they mean.

 

LRM locks down exports, and only permits exports through scipts (even client scripts) that the server permits. LRM in fact INCREASES, not decreases security over what you have with standard LOFC.

 

You are confusing comments intended to show technological capability with some sort of enablement for cheating.

 

So again, read my post above. Most cheating accusations are meaningless.

 

Hello

 

well, I never ever had or have a problem loose a fight. I was shooted down so often that I can call every fish of black sea by his name.

But I will not accept comments like:

 

Ive made a section in the LRM export.lua where the server can add more scripts.

Clients' own scripts in their own export.lua are now run automatically.

YODA

 

or:

 

Well LRM can export anything.

Right now it only exports truck status, but we could

essentially export the status of any object.

 

This is how AMRACT + LRM becomes so powerful.

YODA

 

I started with "Su27 Flanker" in 1996 and used simulations since over 10 years. I can work with my RADAR and my anti aliasing is pretty good. Of course it wasn`t possible to record tacviews to show what I mean! So- hited dogs barking.

 

@ =4c= Hajduk Veljko : Thanks a lot- I`ll visit your server in future. "Our =4c= server allows recording Tacview file, however it does it through LRM and the file is locked until you exit the game.

 

Nevertheless, if you see suspicious behavior, please report it on our forum" - sounds very good. Thanks a lot.

TOM

[2IAE-CrashBG]

Good point, GGTharos!

These are things that I ignore during online flying, sometimes they get me a little angry but that's the thrill of multiplayer gaming :) Personally I try to keep to the real, as much as possible, but Im sure im very far away from the real thing. The only thing that I don't like is someone who fires all his missiles on one target, after knowing there are no other planes nearby, instead of trying to keep supremacy over an area for a period. I like 1 shot=1 kill :pilotfly:

 

Salute all !

[Pilotasso]

yeah untill you can prove without shadow of a doubt one can only suck it up and keep gaming away.

 

Don try label cheaters, because at anyone time you might be tempted to point fingers at everyone and loose credibility or be dragged into idiots discussions and get defeated with experience...or both. Its a loose-loose situation while in ignorance.

 

Human nature prompts people explore less than "glorious" ways to achieve a goal over others in a competition. Thats as certain as the sun rising everyday. Of course in 5 billion years the sun will eat the earth away and explode, but perhaps by then people might have changed too! :D

Edited October 23, 2009 by Pilotasso

[TOMCATZ]

Yes GGTharos- The intention is very good. I`m pretty sure I understud you. So thanks for your posts.

[GGTharos]

Ok Tomcatz, sorry if I come off arrogant; I know Yoda worked for close to a year on LRM, and he worked on it very, very hard.

 

I understand that you needed to vent frustration out here - stuff happens in the MP world ;)

 

Yes GGTharos- The intention is very good. I`m pretty sure I understud you. So thanks for your posts.

[Teknetinium]

Tomcatz by making statements like that can stop new pilots from flying lomac.

We have one pilot BrumTX just saying that. Save this kinde of statements for pilots u really want to accuse and take it to their forums. This is wrong place.

[Pilotasso]

I would like ED to rename 1.13 (whatever it is) to something new and start with a clean slate. Perhaps a new CD title on the stores. We need it both on the marketing and gameplay fronts.

 

 

But thats me dreaming awake. :)

[golfsierra2]

I would like ED to rename 1.13 (whatever it is) to something new and start with a clean slate. Perhaps a new CD title on the stores. We need it both on the marketing and gameplay fronts.

 

But thats me dreaming awake. :)

 

I don't think so. There is no need to 'rename' LOMAC. It's still a benchmark simulation, and the best balance between eye candy and physics models available yet.

 

If the rep of this simulation goes down, it is because of what certain people make out of it, not because of the simulation.

 

I back up Tomcatz here from personal experience in HL. And sadly enough, this is not the problem of a single wing or squad. You'll find black sheep almost everywhere, and personally I think that most of them are lone wolves, not organized in teams.

 

But in the end, what can we do ?

 

Nothing !?

 

(what am I writing here ... sheep are wolves... I should stop drinking now...)

[159th_Viper]

.....and start with a clean slate.......

 

If I was a Betting Man I would put a coupla Quid on the Patch/Update to '1.13' doing just that......erasing some of the Past's Misdemeanors. That said, you know what they say:'You can Please some of the People all of the time and all of the People some of the time. But you cannot Please all of the People all of the time'

 

 

'

[Peyoteros]

Yeah, so, how about not?

 

People who use a particular strategy (believe it or not, as simple as cruising at 50000' and dropping missiles on the enemy below has been at some time or another been labeled as a cheat) and so on and so forth.

 

Not CHEATERS, they're called ASTRONAUT CHICKENS. :smilewink: