Auto Hover

[fraserweller]

Hi gang, I am trying to get to grips with the auto hover function, I can now get into the hover which has taken me a few weeks. I have read most of the posts on this forum, but I am still trying to get the shark to face where I want it without it drifting back to the original heading, I know its probably something to do with the auto pilot functions but I cant get it right. Any advice would be welcome.:pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

Have you tried holding down trim, turning to new heading and letting trim go? :) (You may have to toggle AH after, I don't know).

 

Another possibility is to activate 'turn to target', put your HMS reticle down and just point where you want the heli to turn to.

[dooom]

^^ Both perfect suggestions. I like disabling the hold heading function when i engage a hover until i know where it is i want to point as the pedals may already be displaced from earlier trimming prior to hover. Any more trimming after that just keeps taking the autopilot close to its max authority...

 

So i:

Reset trim

hold hdg off

hover mode

point in direction i will work from

Hit hold hdg..

 

^^ not sure if my interpretation of everything is spot on but it seems to work for me and allows for some nice straight headings as schkval poitns me toward targets.

[GGTharos]

Don't say 'reset trim'! That's a bad combination of words :D

 

Say 'center rudder' :D

[Distiler]

Hi gang, I am trying to get to grips with the auto hover function, I can now get into the hover which has taken me a few weeks. I have read most of the posts on this forum, but I am still trying to get the shark to face where I want it without it drifting back to the original heading, I know its probably something to do with the auto pilot functions but I cant get it right. Any advice would be welcome.:pilotfly:

 

Have you updated DCS witch 1.01c patch? it changes that behaviour.

[Ramstein]

Hi gang, I am trying to get to grips with the auto hover function, I can now get into the hover which has taken me a few weeks. I have read most of the posts on this forum, but I am still trying to get the shark to face where I want it without it drifting back to the original heading, I know its probably something to do with the auto pilot functions but I cant get it right. Any advice would be welcome.:pilotfly:

 

we have a squad memeber who complains about that.. but, for the life of me, I cannot figure out why anyone has that problem.. what are they doing wrong ?,, if it were a bug, everyone would have that problem..

 

:doh:

[ARM505]

*Whistles to himself* ;)

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=47096

 

Ok, I'm just stirring - trim is the answer. :D

Edited November 18, 2009 by ARM505

[Frederf]

Make sure the heading hold diamond updates to the new heading once you've yawed while hovering. It will drift back to the old heading for two reasons:

 

1. The captured heading in the autopilot is still at the old heading

2. Turn to target is on and the Shkval is pointing somewhere uncaged

[sweinhart3]

I never fly without the 3 AP channels engaged. However, I have had problems with the helicopter constantly returning to an old heading when I dont want it to in a hover situation. The only real solution I have found is to deselect any heading that is currently active on the PVI. If I dont have a waypoint selected things are great. But if I want a waypoint selected as a reference point then the only way I have found around it is to retrim with rudder which just plain sucks when your transitioning btwn forward/hover flight. Other option is of course FD but using that has its own set of problems for me. FD gives me more control without having to fight the helis own will to go wherever it wants to go, however I find FD mode impossible to trim. No matter how much I trim, I still have to use constant correction to keep the heli straight and level. In FD mode it is simply impossible for me to take a nap while I fly to the next designated waypoint. Not sure if Kamov pilots are allowed to sleep or drink a cup of coffee while enroute.

[Frederf]

When you deselect the PVI task button and have the cyclic switch in the ROUTE position then that's called "Route without task." However if you do not have the ROUTE logic active then whether or not the PVI task buttons are illuminated makes no difference to the autopilot or your heading problem. So your "fix" makes no sense to me as it should have no practical effect.

 

NOTE: The above is in red is wrong. Whether the task light is illuminated or not makes a difference even outside the ROUTE logic mode. With the DH-M-DT switch in either the DT or DH position the heading hold direction will not be defined by trim button releases but is unalterably toward the current steerpoint. It is only through switching to the middle non-DHorDT position or be turning off any PVI-800 task light that omnidirectional trim-settable heading hold is again possible.

 

The fact of the matter is that the heading hold function of the heading channel is a fact of life in the Ka-50. The only ways around it are disabling the channel entirely, FD, overpowering it with direct control input, or holding down the trim button.

 

As for forward to hover transitions, I have found that holding down trim, making the adjustments and letting go of trim when I'm in a happy hover is how to do it. The holds don't come into effect while the trimmer is pressed so no problems.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Frederf

[sweinhart3]

I rarely run with the Route mode turned on mu chopper always turns toward the selected waypoint unless I trim with opposite rudder. Case in point is the airfield. Im not sure how it works but things are a quite different than fixed wing. AP for fixed wing aircraft has to be set with an ILS frequency with approach set and AP engaged in order to begin an ILS approach. For whatever reason tho, if Im anywhere near an airfield in Blackshark, my heli will always turn its heading toward the runway even if I have a completely different waypoint set in my PVI. If Im inbound from a mission somehow my chopper always knows when Im near an airfield will attempt to turn my heli down the runway even if I dont want it too. How does that work?

[slug88]

What you're describing is completely unlike anything I've experienced in game. Could you post a track demonstrating this rogue autopilot? BTW, you're playing in sim mode, correct?

[sweinhart3]

I could never play in arcade mode. So far this is the only sim I can play cause all the others just feel like a joke to me. One other thing is bothering me about my heli control. I use the TM cougar and I dont use any curves on it but after take off and moving at slow speeds the pitch is super sensitive with little stick movement. Just moving the stick a little changes the pitch so much its difficult to not put it into the ground. Once I get a little speed its much more normalized. I checked for pot spiking but there isnt any near center positions. Ive never recorded a track before so Ill have to figure that out.

[slug88]

Recording a track is quite easy; after you've ended a flight and are presented with the debriefing screen, there will be a button near the bottom labeled "save track". Simply click that, and post it here. You can post by uploading the track as an attachment (click on the advanced button below submit reply, and look below the main text box for the attachment manager.) So, record a short flight demonstrating the AP issue, and we'll have a look. The behavior you're describing about automatic turn to airfield is very bizarre. You don't have Automatic Turn to Target enabled while looking at the airfield with the Shkval, do you?

[159th_Viper]

......Ive never recorded a track before so Ill have to figure that out.

 

Once you end any SP mission you are automatically prompted to 'Save Track'. Just hit the 'Save' Tab and you're good to go.

 

MP Missions are automatically recorded and saved in your Temp Folder.

[sweinhart3]

OK got it. Im at work and used my laptop with a rc controller so its a little clumsier but it clearly demonstrates my point. Throughout the entire flight lift off to touch down, at no time did I use any rudder. If I am in forward flight the heli goes where I want it to. But slow movement/hovering is entirely different. If I bank the heli it turns which I dont know if Im missing something here cause I fly rc helis and banking does not change the heading unless I am in forward flight and the weather vane effect begins. But ok maybe theres some computer control that does that for you. But when I get back into a hover at various postions over the airport you can clearly see the chopper change its heading to the direction of the runway and stop. If the AP chanel is supposed to behave as a Heading Hold, I certainly havent found a way to change its set point without releasing the AP channel. The track is off the shooting range mission. I had WP3 selected on the PVI which is clearly not the runway heading. Route mode and shkval were not used at all.

[sweinhart3]

BTW when I am not near an airfield I get the same affect but the heli turns to the heading that is selected on the PVI. This gets frustrating when Im at an IP getting ready for an attack run and cant get the heli to stabilize exactly where I want it. When I use Viker after lasing the target, even when turn aircraft toward target is selected, it never points completely at the target and I always have to use rudder to align the 2 circles. No big deal but if Im trying to use rockets or gun in boresight mode it becomes a big deal.

[Frederf]

If the AP channel is supposed to behave as a Heading Hold, I certainly haven't found a way to change its set point without releasing the AP channel.

 

It's called the trim button! The heading value used by the heading hold is captured when the trim button is released. The heading AP channel has two halves, a filter/damper that's always on and a hold which is on most of the time except when the trimmer is held down (or FD mode is on).

[159th_Viper]

It's called the trim button!

 

[sweinhart3]

OK but if I have to use rudder either right or left to get the new heading and then hit the trim, the new heading may well be recorded but so is rudder input that I had to use to get there. That means since the rudder is no longer in the neutral position when its trimmed my heli doesnt stay where I want it.

[GGTharos]

So trim it out ;)

[Frederf]

the rudder is no longer in the neutral position

 

Then after trimming return the rudders to neutral (cyclic too). The program gives you 0.5sec or so to do this.

[ARM505]

Ok, I nearly made an amateur mistake here and corrected you - just to be sure, in case he was doing it too:

 

What he said was true, IF he didn't hold the trim button in throughout, ie if he just 'blipped' it as he reached the heading he wanted. If he held the button down the whole time he was stabilising the helo, then no problems.

 

Edit to add: Aha! I've found out why I thought the way I did - since in autohover, most people (I'm guessing, unsurprising since the helo tends to go a bit mad if you press trim whilst in autohover) are reluctant to hold the trim button in as they yaw the helo, since autohover seems a bit 'touchy'. Hence, he may have just pressed and released trim quickly, while he still had the required pedal force applied, locking in the now superfluous trim input. What he needs to do then is either make doubly sure he has his trim sorted out before engaging autohover, then simply keeping the button pressed while he yaws, or pressing and releasing trim AS he reaches the target heading AND releases the pedals the instant before doing this. (the 1st way is probably most correct, however you must admit it's tricky to get the trim 100% correct before engaging autohover, and if you did, you wouldn't need autohover!)

Edited November 21, 2009 by ARM505

[Frederf]

Personally I don't hold trim during simply yaw-only autohover corrections. Why? Because when you hold trim button it disables all 3 channel holds and you start to float off the autohover mark in pitch and bank as well. In fact the trim button also resets the autohover position.

 

Unless I want to take up a new autohover position, then I do.

[ARM505]

I agree - but then what Sweinhart3 said is true, and the pedal force he used to yaw to the new heading will be trimmed in. So, he needs to neutralise the pedals precisely as he reaches the target heading and then trim - a little tricky. That's what I do, or (as I mentioned earlier, and not to kick a dead horse) I just turn the heading AP channel off. Especially in autohover. Then the helo just does what I tell it to, not something else (insert Kamov disclaimer here :) )