Plz comment on my track if you have 10 minutes

[Unicorn0578]

I'm very new and just trying to get a feel for the heli.

 

The Plan was to fly from one airfield to another. Simple. I didnt make it and no I wasnt shot down. :megalol:

 

Think I will just call it pilot error.

 

But I would appreciate any pointers on my flying.

 

I took off with auto start and changed very little during flight.

 

Game was at default Sim setting.

 

I really thought it wasnt going too bad until I went over the water :joystick:

 

The flight really isnt that interesting so plz only look if your really bored lol

 

Thanks in advance

 

Points I found:

Pitch trim seemed alot to keep forward flight

Had to have slight yaw trim to keep even (guess this is due to wind?)

Rudder input was tricky to settle once I reached heading I wanted.

Heli seemed to handle different over water.

flight1.trk

[159th_Falcon]

Hehehe, ill have a look on your track now but my guess is you trusted your

eyes over your instruments.

In other words, you got disoriented by flying over water, happens to real helic pilots to though and they get specific trainings on how to recognize and avoid it.

 

Pitch trim is indeed quite a lot to keep forward flight. nothing wrong there

Yaw trim is also normal due to the helicopters coaxial rotor design, wont go into details.

Rudder can be kind of sensitive yes, guess its a matter of getting used to mostly.

 

Anyway im off to watch your track now.

 

***EDIT***

 

First of all, assuming this is one of your 1st flights your flying the helicopter pretty well.

Something i noticed about you controlling the helicopter though is the following;

You try to control it by quickly and shortly giving large control inputs.

Dont forget your trying to let several tons of equipment change its heading and attitude by,

essentially, pushing beams against air. Try to slowly make small adjustments and wait for the

helicopter to react.

Something else is that you use the trimmer, just not enough. At some point you where making a quite

nice right hand turn. From what i saw you kept the cyclic in position but released the rudders.

Causing the helicopter to swing left to its original heading( or at least try to) you counteracted this

whit pedals again and trimmed.

What you should have done is after the turn, but BEFORE releasing any of the controls is to trim.

That would have prevented that from happening.

You can also try to press and HOLD the trim button while turning, when your flying where you want to go

release the trim.

 

About the crash over water, here's what happend.

 

You flew over the mountains, and your altitude is increasing on the hud.

So you think your climbing.

What actually was happening was that you where descending, but because the slope of the mountain got lower faster

then your decent your altitude increased. (please not the altitude in your hud is measured whit an radio altimeter and relative

to the ground below you when your altitude above the ground is 300 meters or less).

 

Now you where descending and gaining speed, at a certain point you notice the decent and stop it by applying collective.

Also while trying to head for the airfield resulting in an significant banking to the right.

Now two warnings are going off, one yellow flashing button whit tone indicating rotor RPM is to low and one red flashing button

whit tone to indicate you where flying to fast. You "solved" this by pressing the buttons.

 

In fact all this does is make the sound go away, but your rotor RPM was still to low and your speed was still to high.

Important thing is that when your speed is to high the upper and lower rotors on the RH side of the helicopter come

critically close to each other, any sudden movements will cause the blades to hit each other.

 

And this is what happened to you, you realized you where going to fast and pulled quite hard back on the

cyclic, causing the rotor blades to hit each other. From that point on the helicopter did indeed handle different

as you described in your post above.

(still you made a good effort on recovering btw)

 

What you should have done was lower the collective and slowly pull back on the collective.

this would both reduce your speed and increase your rotor RPM, and the warnings would have gone

away automatically.

You would not have caused a big decent during this because your "flaring" the helicopter, meaning your trading

speed for lift thus maintaining altitude.

 

I hope this helped and if your interested in helicopter aerodynamics and why helicopters fly like they do

take a look at the following site;

http://www.dynamicflight.com/aerodynamics/

(i suggest reading the sections basic aerodynamics, airfoils in general and relative wind

first as that is mostly what the rest of the topics rely on to explain things.)

Edited January 20, 2010 by 159th_Falcon

[159th_Falcon]

You crashed because you destroyed the engines by flying too fast. There was a reason for all those warning and beeping sounds in the cockpit.:) Those warning lights and beeping tones from the helicopter avionics were telling you that the engines were vibrating too much and couldn't take much longer your speed. You should have slowed down and brought speed under the proper parameters.

 

Also, on a side note IMHO, you were fighting trim. When you want to turn your Helicopter, hold down trim button while turning and getting yourself set up in proper heading. Once you are heading where you want, have your speed or pitch where you want, rudders are where you want, then release trim and center joystick quickly. The Shark will then fly the aircraft for you.

 

Keep it up and welcome to the community.

 

About the trim, your kinda on the right side.

About the engines, im tempted to say B**L S**T

see the edit of my post above.

Of course still nice of you of trying to help but really, his engines where not in over speed condition.

[talisman]

Agreed with Falcon - Blade overstress and not engine overspeed. Engines are fine and where being managed by the EEG. Basically you where flying too fast and when you pulled hard on the cyclic - the bottom blades hit the top and then you hit the drink.

 

1st tip:

 

Dont pull your collective so much - for a good part of the flight you where at max and the yellow Governor lights where on. When you see this - drop the collective a little - the helo will loose altitude forcing you to pull pitch - this will slow the Helo and even everything out.

 

2nd tip:

 

All helicopters regardles of design are almost useless when it comes to rudder commands while in forward flight or at least at speed. Never try to turn the aircraft with the rudder unless your flying at less than 50 knots. Instead, turn like your flying a plank - bank. Use the rudder to co-ordinate or prevent slip - but dont use it to turn. Rudder is best used at low speeds for manuvering - that way it wont try to fling you in the opposite direction when you stop applying pressure.

 

Other than that - a good flight - well done - i would let you be my wing man anytime. PS im not sure if the take off was intentional - but flying up and back like that is a manuver called a "helipad profile" and is used by pilots as it allows the pilot to lift without ever loosing sight of the pad - a good thing if a turbine was to malfunction.

[enigma6584]

Well, my bad then. That's what I get for looking at something too quickly. I'll know better next time.

[liotczik]

I've loaded your track file and here are my remarks written hot while watching (some will overlap with what was already said):

 

1) Use ground power and notify the tower on what you're doing, if you want more realism.

 

2) By all means don't fly that high up vertically! Engine failure and you're busted. Proper technique for a helo take off is to:

- lift off vertically no more than 10m and check if engines work correctly and you're not overloaded, check power settings needed for hovering, if all the needles are where they should be

- retract gear and begin to accelerate forward while holding height of no more than 10-15m, try not to lower the nose more than -10 degrees

- you may begin ascent after you've hit 80km/h

- I've never heard of flying back to see the helipad. Note, that while hovering over center of it, you can see enough of it to perform emergency landing. For me that backward movement looked more like too much pitch up on lift off.

 

3) Watch your airspeed and rotor rpm. That warning lights and sounds are for a reason. Also try not to force EEG to limit engines because of too much torque. Get a habit of periodical monitoring of all the gauges and caution panels while in flight. F.e. use blade pitch gauge to see hom much collective you can pull up - you tend to pull up too much => helo accelerates past Vne and engines gets limited, which causes low rotor rpm.

 

4) Be more gentle with controls. Aircraft, and helos especially, doesn't like jerking on the stick & co. Move quickly but smoothly instead on instant large deflections. Make 10 small moves instead of 1 big.

 

5) Don't use trim reset feature while in flight (on the ground it's OK, to quickly prevent helo from rolling, after you've landed).

 

6) Watch your vertical speed indicator, you've rarely flown at a constant altitude. Watch your altimeter - generally you don't want to fly high.

 

7) ABRIS was all the time on main page and PVI-800 wasn't set to anything (I don't know if it was the case or track shows incorrectly). Use them, as they are really helpful.

 

8) When making a turn with some forward speed, first bank and after you feel, that helo begins entering the turn, add some rudder to balance sideslip. That is different from most aircraft, where you have to use stick and rudder at the same time while entering a turn. Also you can't totally eliminate the sideslip while fying straight, but try to minimise it.

 

9) Don't trim by rapid pressing on the button. Instead press and hold, establish desired attitude, wait for the helo to settle there and only then release trim button. Proper trimming method combined with gentle controls inputs will help you avoid oscillations, which were even bigger by flying that fast.

 

10) When you want to lower your altitude, use collective, instead of dropping the nose down! Remember, that nose is for setting airspeed and rotors are for the altitude, not the other way.

As a side note, the same is true for fixed-wings (diving aside, as it's a different maneuver). Pitch for speed and throttle for altitude, that's the correct way of maintaining proper landing approach profile.

 

11) Why extending the gear at about 290 km/h IAS, while the limit is on max 200? They could get damaged that way - by no means gear should be used as air brakes.

 

Overall, not bad, it's just the small things that need improvement :) Treat the above, as friendly instructor constructive ctiticism. Play around for a while, get used to Ka-50, try in person what was said and post another track for evaluation ;)

[159th_Viper]

Trim for every Attitude adjustment, however Small. Utilize the ABRIS for reference to facilitate Navigation to a Specific Point/Airbase if you're unfamiliar with the Environs - will alleviate the necessity of toggling to Mapview to get your Bearings. Never know what might Jump out in front of you whilst you have your Head in F10-View ;)

 

For a Pilot with a few Flight Hours under your Belt you're doing remarkably well. Just keep at it and Have Fun but don't be scared to Push the Envelope - Fly her Like you Stole Her and then Some! You'll quickly get to know the Helo's Limitations and be Better for It :)

[Unicorn0578]

Thanks for all your replies ! :thumbup:

 

The feedback is exactly what I wanted so I can learn and not get into any bad habits. I learnt to driver in 5 days on an intensive course and IMO think this is easier than 1 lesson a week for 6 months because you dont have a chance to learn bad habits.

 

Alot to digest and I will read and re-read carefully and post another track when I feel I have made some improvement :book: :D

 

Thanks again :pilotfly:

[26-J39]

I will add one more thing.. You engage Alt hold while you are gaining alt at 5 m/s.. and also did not release it while trying to descend to the arrived airfield. The alt hold has about 20% authority, u want to be around 0m/s vertical speed before engaging Alt hold, which will then keep you at that alt. Switch it off when trying to descend alt or the AP will use it's 20% authority to fight you and your collective inputs..

[Unicorn0578]

@Falcon1906

 

Thanks for your encouragement. I can see my inputs are large and it’s easy to forget the helicopter is a big physical object that needs gentle coaxing to change direction.

I agree the mountains did confuse my altitude a little and whether I was in a climb or not. When I was descending I did feel like the helicopter was running away with me and the warning tone and lights didn’t help me other than fluster me a little. Thinking now my RPM were too low and speed too high makes sense but at the time I think I related RPM and speed in the same context.

So the blades hit each other! Now that would change things a little I guess lol

I will indeed look into that site for info.

 

@talisman

 

Yup blade overstress. I need to think more about that. Good to know the Engines are fine and managed by the EEG (Will have to look that up).

Will have to look up the yellow Governor lights also.

 

Good advice on rudder. Won’t use too much over 50 knots now other than to stop slip during turn.

The Helipad profile was unintentional but I like seeing the pad.

 

 

@liotczik

 

I don’t yet know how to use Ground power or communicate with tower. Just wanted to get a feel for flying then learn more when needed

 

I like the procedure for lifting off and will try to adopt. Low level flight seems a good idea.

 

I do need to use gauges. Some terminology I need to learn also lol.

 

Will try to keep a constant altitude. Good point.

 

Will learn ABRIS and PVI-800 system.

Thanks for all advice.

 

Lowered gear early so I wouldn’t forget lol

 

@159th Viper

 

Will try to trim as you say. How did you know I was using F10 !!! lol

Thanks for advice and encouragement. Fun is the thing and at the moment it certainly is fun !

 

@26-J39

 

Yup I didn’t really know what I was doing when I engaged Alt Hold. Just thought it would stabilise my flight a little. Thanks for helpful info J

[159th_Falcon]

 

@159th Viper

 

Will try to trim as you say. How did you know I was using F10 !!! lol

Thanks for advice and encouragement. Fun is the thing and at the moment it certainly is fun !J

Not that hard, the PVI-800 is a navigation instrument, and we saw you didnt use it.

Abris has a GPS moving map function for naviation, you didnt use that either.

And the HSI's (you will learn that later i think) where point in totally different directions you where flying.

Still you somehow managed to navigate to the other airfield........

F10 is the answer.

 

(ps, PVI800 can be used also for other things besides navigation, though i must admit i never use it:huh::hmm:)

[liotczik]

If you're interested, why you ought to take off like that, here is more info on the subject:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height-velocity_diagram

 

http://www.dynamicflight.com/flight_maneuvers/takeoffs/

[mdee]

9) Don't trim by rapid pressing on the button. Instead press and hold, establish desired attitude, wait for the helo to settle there and only then release trim button. Proper trimming method combined with gentle controls inputs will help you avoid oscillations, which were even bigger by flying that fast.

 

Everything is fine, except that that's not a proper method to trim. Press and release is proper.

 

What works in game is different story.

[JaBoG32_Prinzartus]

You willnot forget to lower your gear before landing if you get used to a "Three Green" check. Always look for the gear lever and its indication lights prior to landing.

[talisman]

Just a quick one - but in page 12 here is a helipad profile takeoff.

 

http://216.19.207.5/Rotorcraft/Models/MD900Tech/900%20Tech%20Cat%20A%20Ops.pdf

[liotczik]

Everything is fine, except that that's not a proper method to trim. Press and release is proper.

 

What works in game is different story.

 

He posted track from the sim, asked about sim and I haven't flown real Ka-50 so far, so I think it's OK to speak about proper procedure that way ;)

 

Just a quick one - but in page 12 here is a helipad profile takeoff.

 

Nice find :) However take note, that this technique applies to a heliport (which means obstacles next to the helipad, as indicated on middle picture, page 12) or elevated helipad (think oilrig or skyscraper) only. In such scenarios you want first to move away from possible trouble makers, and only then begin take off itself. Compare it to taking off from a frigate, where first you lift off, then fly sideways to clear ship's structure and then begin to accelerate.

 

In such scenario, helipad visibility is important because it's pilot's only reference point, with distant features being obscured by obstacles and/or terrain/sea hundreds of feet below. Also, you want your tailrotor as far as possible fromsaid obstacles (like wall or rocky slope), so it's best to move away flying backwards.

 

Given the facts, that Ka-50 FARPs do not have high structures around, usually close behind you is another helicopter and Shark has exceptionaly poor visibility to the rear, I think it's safer to take off with 'clear airfield procedure' from your pdf. Additionaly, it's easier to perform.

 

Search Youtube for videos of taking off and landing helicopters, as an additional training source, this one being my favourite:

 

(yes, elevated helipad procedure in action :D)

 

(clear field procedure, for comparison ;))

 

Another thing is, that this pdf clearly shows proper helo take off and landing profiles, with regards to safety and preventing fatal crash in engine failure scenario. Ascending and descending vertically is a bad idea (sadly, sometimes there is no choice).

[talisman]

Hello as part of my business i work with helicopter and aviation companies and will often travel with aviation companies doing fuelling and night landings in rural areas around the south west of england, i am very lucky in that i have recieved training and can assist with setting up tactical landing sites etc.

 

When we set up an area to use as a site we will insist that the CAT A profile is used as it allows the pilot a constant reference. You are correct through that it is only used at some sites and can in fact put a lot of wear on an aircrafts engines as almost full power is required at takeoff. All pilots as wer know prefer to build speed in forward flight into a head wind.

 

I mearly pointed out the profile to make out new flyer feel better about his take off. :)