AI doing SEAD, fix or mod for this??

[Haukka81]

Why, o why .. this ****ing stupid broblem from lock on fc is also in black shark:

 

When AI is flying sead mission they will jettison all weapons once a Sam fires on them, which make them very useless. :mad::mad:

 

Are devs and beta testers blind or something? :huh:

 

 

Is there any way to fix this weird tactic of AI ??

 

-haukka81

[asxdef]

If they don't jettison their stores the amount of G the plane can sustain is limited which can be problematic while evading a SAM.

[Griffin]

If they don't jettison their stores...

 

I feel like saying "No s**t Sherlock" but I won't. :)

 

I think you understand too how jettisoning all your stores is in conflict with your original mission.

 

I've read similar things happening in WW2 eastern front. Russian fighter pilots saw German bombers drop their bombs on their own territory before reaching the front line and turn back after seeing Soviet fighters. What is the point? No pain, no gain. Allied bombers pushed through flak and enemy fighters and got the job done.

 

I would happily wait another year if ED could make AI worth the letter I in the AI abbreviation (for both FC2 and DCS).

[Haukka81]

If they don't jettison their stores the amount of G the plane can sustain is limited which can be problematic while evading a SAM.

 

They die even if they drop their weapons and they are performing sead.. :music_whistling:

 

 

-haukka81

[isoul]

If they don't jettison their stores the amount of G the plane can sustain is limited which can be problematic while evading a SAM.

 

Actually SEAD aircraft know that they will be the target of SAMS and they are supposed not to jettison their precious ARMs. Instead they use approach tactics that would minimize the possibility of a shoot down.

 

I think you do understand too that something is wrong to the AI behavior of SEAD if something like this happens.

[Grimes]

The AI have a TON of quirks that I've yet to come to grips yet. Along with their "Flight not Fight" reaction at any sign of trouble they do some other strange stuff...

 

While RTB nothing can stop them. They must RTB, if someone is firing missiles at them they just auto chaff and flare while maintaining their course and speed. They just shrug it off as if they are indestructible. This of course is proven to not be true as soon as they become a million little pieces.

 

Then of course is the matter of WHY they are RTB. In my recent experiments with AI aircraft I find they tend to run out of fuel. Why? Because when they are 80nm away from the enemy bandits they go full Afterburner toward the enemy and keep that way until the merge.

 

When they actually do run out of fuel an amazing thing happens. The pilot has a heart attack. Unable to control the aircraft the pilot skillfully crashes it into the nearest ground.

 

Amusingly enough when I discovered that last point, the pilot was on finals 100 feet from the edge of the runway. It crashed right on the threshold. At the hands of a human he could have easily glided it in, it doesn't get much perfect or easier than that for a sans engine landing.

[goldfinger35]

I have spent a lot of time watching AI planes and helis in this game and there is one thing that really bothers me: they all seem to be "magnetically" drawn to enemy SAM positions. For example, Su-25s would fly to enemy position and instead of attacking them from safe altitude (4+ km), they would lower their altitude to around 2 km and get shot with enemy Stingers. If they avoid Stinger attack, they would turn around, fly low and get shot.

Helis, for example Mi-24s, do something similar; instead of attacking from maximum distance, they fly towards enemy SAMs and get shot almost every time.

[Eddie]

I've spent a lot of time watching the AI attempt various mission types, and I've come to the conclusion that there is little to no I at all.

 

Watching them do SEAD, even against a nice easy SA-6 is pure comedy. For some reason they refuse to launch their HARMS until they are well within the SA-6's WEZ. Here's hoping it gets fixed sooner rather than later as AI performance will become more and more important when we get A-10C and other jets.

[104th_Crunch]

I don't understand. Yes, I the AI has some very big problems as Grimes pointed out, and yes the AI can drop SEAD weapons when launched at - sometimes, but not all the time.

 

If you setup the attack waypoint of an AI SEAD flight so that they start the attack from the maximum range of their SEAD missile, they will shoot on targets. It is not impossible to setup. Yesterday for the 51st Crimean Incident, I had our 2 Tornadoes take out 3 ground targets. It is possible to do. Maybe it is just a matter of better setup of the attack waypoint and engagement altitude.

[Eddie]

If you setup the attack waypoint of an AI SEAD flight so that they start the attack from the maximum range of their SEAD missile, they will shoot on targets. It is not impossible to setup.

 

 

That's kind of my point, you need to set it up. IMO if you have to tell the AI exactly what to do and when to do it, it isn't AI. The AI engine should be able to carry out missions without the mission designer spending 3 hours essentially scripting the events. As the moment the AI cannot cope with anything unexpected, they should be able to react to a pop up SA-6 and successfully attack it, at the moment they can't. I mean why on earth would they choose to engage an active SA-6 battery with AGM-65 from low level when they have AGM-88 and are flying at 30,000ft?

[104th_Crunch]

Yes, Eddie I see your point. They don't handle surprises very well and you must set them up with attack waypoint and good altitude properly. It is the only way.

[element1108]

Ai will always just be ai. Far from perfect in all situations especialy combat. Hopefully your rl sead pilots in fc 2.0 won't be so quick to drop their stores. ;)

[Eddie]

Ai will always just be ai. Far from perfect in all situations especialy combat. Hopefully your rl sead pilots in fc 2.0 won't be so quick to drop their stores. ;)

 

 

That'd be fine, if it weren't for the fact that in other (much older) sims the AI can handle such situations. It's little things like this that are holding DCS back at the moment. I have no doubt however that ED will fix these issues in due course.

 

And some of us won't be flying with LOMAC players, regardless of whatever addons are made for it ;)

[Speed_2]

As far as the jettisoning weapons to get more g's of manuverability- You don't have to pull 9G turns most of the time to evade missiles... also, anti-radiation missiles are usually kinda light and streamlined, so not THAT heavy.

 

Another problem with the AI doing SEAD is that they only will launch one missile at a target at a time. Even if you put two SEPARATE flights to hit the same target, they somehow still communicate with each other and will only launch one missile at a time. This means that over half the time (or course, this depends on the quality of the SAM), their one missile will just be shot down- over and over and over again, until the SEAD aircraft run out of missiles.

[element1108]

That'd be fine, if it weren't for the fact that in other (much older) sims the AI can handle such situations. It's little things like this that are holding DCS back at the moment. I have no doubt however that ED will fix these issues in due course.

 

And some of us won't be flying with LOMAC players, regardless of whatever addons are made for it ;)

 

what's wrong with lomac players??

[159th_Falcon]

Who said there is something wrong whit lomac players?

[element1108]

Eddie "some of us won't be playing with lomac players..." I was just pulling off that, on my iPhone and the ;) wink didn't register.

 

;) ;)

 

lomac players on sead patrol will infinitly times better than any ai...skynet or not ;).

[Eddie]

what's wrong with lomac players??

 

 

Nothing at all. If that's what floats your boat. It was merely a factual statement, no hidden meaning attached ;)

[element1108]

Nothing at all. If that's what floats your boat. It was merely a factual statement, no hidden meaning attached ;)

 

:)

[Grimes]

You can only entrust the AI to accomplish just a single task anything more and they will fail somewhere down the line. You really gotta rig the deck so to speak in their favor. In other words, if you want the group to succeed make em fight something that is incredibly simple and easy to beat. For A2A combat, give one group superior weapons and aircraft give the other 1 or 2 missiles. Even making it super easy for em they do tend to fail from time to time.

 

A2A combat is especially dynamic. I had 2 F14s go up against 2 Su-27's. Let the match play out a few times and it was different each time. One time a lone Tomcat remained, another time the Flankers won with 0 loses. Only comment I have toward behavior that I felt was wrong in that fight was the Tomcats waited an eternity to launch their Aim-54's. The missile was still burning when it reached the Flankers. As stated in my previous post both of em went full burner at each other form 80nm or so out and they both climbed to the exact same altitude.