Complaints about A-10A guns

[ShadowVonChadwick]

Also found these parameters interesting.

 

table.piercing_mass = table.mass;

if (table.explosive/table.mass > 0.1) then

table.piercing_mass = table.mass/5.0;

end

[Merc]

I do agree about the tracers and lack of ground explosions which feel a bit wrong. It's a visual effect but it does matter for immersion. I might be wrong but I think A-10s are loaded with mixed ammunition, aka one API round for 3 HE rounds. It bugged me at first and I did look up some videos on youtube and couldn't find Gau-8 tracers, so it still bugs me. Can't say the ballistic model isn't good looking however, just not fit for the A-10.

[ShadowVonChadwick]

That's what happens when you mess with the in-game parameters without understanding what you're doing.

 

The Mk-20's work just fine, you just have to employ more realistically.

The GAU-8 is by default armed with API in FC2, and you switched it to HE ... which will NOT penetrate armor well.

 

A bit of an arrogant statement don't you think ?? You don't know me.

 

Who said I switched to HE ? Its the standard API that wont penetrate armor. 50% of rounds on target thats say 500 slugs with out a Kill (T55).

 

Did you even bother to read the file names, same test.miz file in both Ka-50 then in FC2 with AI pilot.

Edited April 10, 2010 by ShadowVonChadwick

[DetroitDieseL]

Sorry but I honestly don't understand where you guys are getting your info. I was in the 2nd AD on Hood- I've seen A-10s at work- from the porkchop in my ear to their CVC. I seen a blaze of tracers coming out of that cannon, and I'm not mistaking.

 

Also depending on the velocity of a round, it doesn't need to be a tracer to glow like that. And I also seen with my own eyes rounds from a A-10 cannon bouncing off of hard targets-glowing.

 

I see some members posts here saying they seen the exact opposite. Not sure maybe different rounds- At anyrate, I know what I seen. Besides no debri flying up as rounds hit the deck, I think ED did an awesome job replicating the A-10.

[Bucic]

Sorry but I honestly don't understand where you guys are getting your info. I was in the 2nd AD on Hood- I've seen A-10s at work- from the porkchop in my ear to their CVC. I seen a blaze of tracers coming out of that cannon, and I'm not mistaking.

 

Also depending on the velocity of a round, it doesn't need to be a tracer to glow like that. And I also seen with my own eyes rounds from a A-10 cannon bouncing off of hard targets-glowing.

 

I see some members posts here saying they seen the exact opposite. Not sure maybe different rounds- At anyrate, I know what I seen. Besides no debri flying up as rounds hit the deck, I think ED did an awesome job replicating the A-10.

Keep it coming, tanker

Edited April 10, 2010 by Bucic

[ShadowVonChadwick]

Sorry but I honestly don't understand where you guys are getting your info. I was in the 2nd AD on Hood- I've seen A-10s at work- from the porkchop in my ear to their CVC. I seen a blaze of tracers coming out of that cannon, and I'm not mistaking.

 

Also depending on the velocity of a round, it doesn't need to be a tracer to glow like that. And I also seen with my own eyes rounds from a A-10 cannon bouncing off of hard targets-glowing.

 

I see some members posts here saying they seen the exact opposite. Not sure maybe different rounds- At anyrate, I know what I seen. Besides no debri flying up as rounds hit the deck, I think ED did an awesome job replicating the A-10.

 

I dont disagree but this is farmland not hard packed clay.

[Squid]

ofcourse theres bouncing / ricochet of either rounds themselves or shrapnel but its NOT ONLY bouncing / ricochet / sparkles. There are for sure and by any point of view lot of other things too happening when those rounds hit ground targets, that some of us believe are missing now. And SOME targets blowing right then under a considerable stream of rounds and not few minutes later would be nice. (not all targets and all the time)

[DetroitDieseL]

@ Havoc-I don't know about all that- I just know what I saw.

 

I'm sure all the dust and debri and sparks and shrapnel is not there to save frame rates, and to keep your pc from crashing.

At any rate, every single tracer round bouncing off the soft ground like rubber balls definately isn't right. If indeed some tracer rounds bounce, be it but not a 100% of them. Also, it should definately kick up some dirt regardless of whether they are AP or HE rounds.

[Griffin]

As GGT mentioned and was also discussed in another thread, modifying values in the files will not necessarily make it more realistic because we don't understand how the engine works. I'm skeptical about modifying them and would be grateful if someone would be able to find a solution to adding impact effects instead of modifying the projectile properties.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Griffin

As GGT mentioned and was also discussed in another thread, modifying values in the files will not necessarily make it more realistic because we don't understand how the engine works. I'm skeptical about modifying them and would be able to find a solution to adding impact effects instead of modifying the projectile properties.

 

I agree. If someone can figure out how to just change the graphics properties of the projectiles and impact point, that would suffice.

Change this thats it.

explosive = 0.0750,<<<< Change explosive power of round.

 

but are we sure this doesn't change the actual projectile properties from AP to HE rounds?

[ShadowVonChadwick]

Havoc

 

I moved the T55s from a slight gully position to a runway and now having no problems killing them, one pass from rear or two from front/side. Including T72. with stores to spare.

 

Will go back & test with "explosive = 0.075,"

 

Cheers

[ShadowVonChadwick]

Ha Havoc

 

Just ran test.miz with "explosive = 0.075" with no kills.

The problem lies in:

 

table.piercing_mass = table.mass;

if (table.explosive/table.mass > 0.1) then

table.piercing_mass = table.mass/5.0;

end

 

So 0.075/0.36 = 0.208 is too big

Thus piercing_mass is 0.36/5= 0.072 a lot less then 0.36

 

Explosive value must be less then 0.036, just tried 0.01 worked well.

Cant play with table.piercing statment as other shells will be affected.

 

Cheers

[Squid]

@ Havoc-I don't know about all that- I just know what I saw.

 

I'm sure all the dust and debri and sparks and shrapnel is not there to save frame rates, and to keep your pc from crashing.

 

those effects were there in FC1 with no FPS impact. (there just wasnt ricochet and the new physics, which are ofcourse nice to have now) and also there are every other effect here too, like shockwaves, or cluster bombs etc etc of more or less equal processing poower demands and they dont cause more fps hit :( .....

[Squid]

At any rate' date=' every single tracer round bouncing off the soft ground like rubber balls definately isn't right. If indeed some tracer rounds bounce, be it but not a 100% of them. Also, it should definately kick up some dirt regardless of whether they are AP or HE rounds.[/quote']

 

exactly .....

[ShadowVonChadwick]

Havoc

Explosive value must be less then 0.036, just tried 0.01 worked well, 0.02 was visiable from further out.

Cant play with table.piercing statment as other shells will be affected

 

It must be less then 0.036

My preferance is 0.01 with model_name = "kinetic_type1",

Edited April 10, 2010 by ShadowVonChadwick

[ShadowVonChadwick]

OK got something else for you to try,

 

Go back to; model_name = "tracer_bullet_yellow",

 

but then set: tracer_off = 9,

 

So now I have-

 

shell("GAU8_30_AP", _("GAU8_30_AP"), {

model_name = "tracer_bullet_yellow",

v0 = 950.0,

Dv0 = 0.0060,

Da0 = 0.0017,

Da1 = 0.0,

mass = 0.360,

explosive = 0.01, (or 0.02)

life_time = 31,

caliber = 30.0,

AP_cap_caliber = 15.0,

s = 0.0,

j = 0.0,

l = 0.0,

charTime = 0,

cx = {0.5,0.80,0.90,0.080,2.15},

k1 = 5.7e-09,

tracer_off = 9, currently using 6, reduced tracer rebound

scale_tracer = 1,

name = "30mm AP",

 

 

No Rebound, some tracer effect

Cheers Shad

Edited May 3, 2010 by ShadowVonChadwick

[thw6kds]

Guys, I flew A-10A for fifteen years! Tracers are not in the inventory!!! Whatever ground observers see, it is not a tracer round. The most commonly used round is actually not a combat load. The TP round is designed for live fire practice and is the round most commonly observed by ground personnel at gunnery ranges and non-combat live fire exercises. The TP produces spectacular eruptions of debris on contact with earth or water and its enormous kinetic energy yields highly visible sparkles upon contact with hard targets. Although undeniably deadly, it is an inert projectile. I have killed a lot of dirt with TP! Never saw anything like the effects in FC2 from the real cockpit but it is a great sim and enjoy it no matter what the graphic effect chosen by the developers. If a little tweaking results in something more representative of the real view from the cockpit, that's icing on the cake! I have enjoyed trying out the various config mods and appreciate the efforts, observations, and input from everyone I have read on this forum.

Guys, I flew A-10A for fifteen years! Tracers are not in the inventory!!! Whatever ground observers see, it is not a tracer round. The most commonly used round is actually not a combat load. The TP round is designed for live fire practice and is the round most commonly observed by ground personnel at gunnery ranges and non-combat live fire exercises. The TP produces spectacular eruptions of debris on contact with earth or water and its enormous kinetic energy yields highly visible sparkles upon contact with hard targets. Although undeniably deadly, it is an inert projectile. I have killed a lot of dirt with TP! Never saw anything like the effects in FC2 from the real cockpit but it is a great sim and enjoy it no matter what the graphic effect chosen by the developers. If a little tweaking results in something more representative of the real view from the cockpit, that's icing on the cake! I have enjoyed trying out the various config mods and appreciate the efforts, observations, and input from everyone I have read on this forum.

 

So which settings do you think are best so far? That's awesome you've flown the real thing!

[Deadman]

Here are some links for the specs on Accuracy: 80% of rounds fired at 4,000 feet (1,200 m) range hit within a 20 feet (6.1 m) radius

• PGU-14/B API Armor Piercing Incendiary (DU)
  
• PGU-13/B HEI High explosive incendiary
  
• PGU-15/B TP Target Practice
  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GAU-8_Avenger

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/systems/gau-8.htm

http://www.gd-ots.com/webpdf/30MMGAU.pdf

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/28824944/30x173-High-Explosive-Incendiary-Product-Improvement

http://wk2ammo.com/archive/index.php/t-3823.html

 

There are more you can Google for:huh:

[ShadowVonChadwick]

thw6kds

 

Thanks for your input,

I knew there are no tracers produced for 30mm as there are for other caliber Gatling guns of similar heritage but I didn't want to tread on toes. Still undecided whether to keep the minimal trace effect or go back to none. Some atmosphere disturbance would be nice.

 

PS What do you think of the MK20 implementation ??

Edited April 11, 2010 by ShadowVonChadwick

[mvsgas]

So thw6kds says he never seen rounds ricochet nor tracers.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=876136&postcount=137

DetroitDieseL says he seen ricochet glowing rounds from a A-10

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=875875&postcount=112

 

Could it safe to assume both have seen different things from same type of aircraft?

Could it be dependent of the rounds themselves? Also many other factors (air temp, density, humidity, etc)

I'm sure there is more than one manufacture of PGU ammo.(any version)

 

thw6kds- Are you still an USAF pilot or are you with the ANG/ AF Reserves?

DetroitDiese- How long ago did you work with the A-10?

 

Obviously, I do not mean to pry just curious. I'm a Crew Chief currently assigned to Luke 56 AMXS, I served in 51stFW, 31stFW, 49thFW, 8thFW. Work F-16 40/42 most of the time ( limited block 30/32 and 25 experiences) I work very, very little with a A-10, mostly during air shows (helping refuel, marshal)

Seems like what Detroit saw were the sparks caused by the TP rounds hitting hard surface with a lot of kinetic energy. I can imagine how such an impact could cause this illusion on hard surfaces.

[DetroitDieseL]

We fired on alot of older M-60s after the Marines recieved the old M1s and what they didn't sink in the ocean for reef- we used as hard targets. I swear I remember the A-10s blazing on them- and I'm not saying tracers, but, their rounds were glowing. I specifically remember because all the hair on my entire body stood straight up like a hard-on and I got the chills -- saying to the pilot, " Now thats some Shock and Awe. "