Not so fun anymore

[midju]

I had big hopes for FC 2.0 regarding the ECM pain. How can 15 secs startup time do any good. Except for incoming missile.

Many people seems to be using ECM more or less all the time. So 15 secs start up is .....?!?

 

Why don't give all a missile with 25 Km range and skip ECM? Or give us AWACS declare.

Falcon where are you?

 

If this is the patch taken by ED I will not by another simulator again. However ED is up to something good here with B.S. FC2 and A10C etc... -> can be Outstanding!

This is my opinion.

Edited April 1, 2010 by midju

[EtherealN]

The warmup time on the ECM is there because real ECM has to warm up. It also eliminates the ECM-blink exploit.

 

And yes, you use ECM to ensure that others cannot lock you, not to defeat a missile that is already launched. If you do the latter you have already failed in that you have been forced to go defensive and have given initiative to your opponent.

 

As for why not make all missiles 25km and skip ECM? Well, because that's not the range the real missiles have, and the real aircraft have ECM!

[midju]

The warmup time on the ECM is there because real ECM has to warm up. It also eliminates the ECM-blink exploit.

 

And yes, you use ECM to ensure that others cannot lock you, not to defeat a missile that is already launched. If you do the latter you have already failed in that you have been forced to go defensive and have given initiative to your opponent.

 

As for why not make all missiles 25km and skip ECM? Well, because that's not the range the real missiles have, and the real aircraft have ECM!

 

Modern ECM can defeat a missile running in HOJ (temporally) If you go 1000 km/h and turn away and use maybe the 2-3 secs you can evade better most A2A do max 20 g. . What i'm trying to say is this is not so fun with a chicken race Hi/low slow/fast etc and then fire make a 180 deg or T-POLE to evade.

 

Why do SAM's know what to fire or NOT to fire in Lock-on FI or FO. Patrot fire a looong distance- Where to draw the line? This is a game it should be fun. For me who is more "sim-taliban" it's no fun anymore. Thats my point.

 

Best regard's

Edited April 1, 2010 by midju

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

Its a sim dude if you want a game then bust out your Playstation 3 and play Ace Combat! I think most members here would disagree with your comments.

[midju]

Its a sim dude if you want a game then bust out your Playstation 3 and play Ace Combat! I think most members here would disagree with your comments.

 

 

 

Why this tone? Don't call me Dude. English is not my native language. (du verkar fatta noll förövrigt)

I don't think you correct. Have been flying sims since the late -80. Have been a tester of some of them.

 

And I'm to old for PS3

Edited April 1, 2010 by midju

[GGTharos]

And who said falcon models this more realistically than FC2? Heh. :D

[midju]

And who said falcon models this more realistically than FC2? Heh. :D

 

Sorry. I'm mean The F16 FALCON to Lock-on. My fault. I love the F16 A2A A2G.

English is not my native. (Sometimes words get in the wrong order.)

Edited April 1, 2010 by midju

[HitchHikingFlatlander]

Why this tone? Don't call me Dude. English is not my native language. (du verkar fatta noll förövrigt)

I don't think you correct. Have been flying sims since the late -80. Have been a tester of some of them.

 

And I'm to old for PS3

 

You seems to not get it. DO NOT CALL ME A DUDE. Stupid ****. PS3 !?!

 

Dude is not an english form of disrespect, its the equivalent of the english saying "hey mate". Sorry for the mis-understanding

 

Now what you have written in your PM to me was disrespectful and immature.

 

I'm sorry you disagree with me, welcome to life, people tend to have their own opinions. I seriously meant no disrespect.

[midju]

Dude is not an english form of disrespect, its the equivalent of the english saying "hey mate". Sorry for the mis-understanding

 

Now what you have written in your PM to me was disrespectful and immature.

 

I'm sorry you disagree with me, welcome to life, people tend to have their own opinions. I seriously meant no disrespect.

 

Check your PM. We are from many countries things are not easy. Can you please tell me here in public what you meant by me going to PS3. Please why? That was also disrespectful and immature.

I'm a serious simmer. Shall I start with the universal integer next time and build my question. Yes I know what ECM is.

Edited April 1, 2010 by midju

[EtherealN]

Lets drop the discussion about dudes and dudettes. (But yeah, seriously, "dude" isn't an insult.) Topic is ECM warmups and related behaviours and how they impact gameplay. ;)

[McDaniel]

Hey Midju,

 

everybody has the right to post his opinion, to be honest I am not a AA guy, I am more the mudd moving guy :thumbup:

 

So I can not talk about the issues you have or see, but why do you make statements like "I will not buy anymore from ED" because with that comment or action, you force all us old guys to buy a PS3!!! :smartass:

 

I am with Simulator since Commodore 64 and I feel pretty old sometimes, but I have a PS3, and playing Guitar Hero Metallica can help tremendous with stress relief!!! :thumbup:

 

BTW: You have to be nice to me, because my country is on the edge to buy some Gripens from Sweden!!! :thumbup::lol:

 

Enjoy the best AA-AG Sim since Falcon 3+4 and have nice eastern!

 

McDan out

[71st_Mastiff]

Funny thing I know you will keep on flying it cause ED is the only ones making flight Sims any more.

 

Oh and by the way if your still waiting for Falcon 5.0 lol it will never be nor will fighter op's. They have been declared defunct. http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2974080/Has_Lead_Pursuit_pulled_the_pl.html#Post2974080

 

I had big hopes for FC 2.0 regarding the ECM pain. How can 15 secs startup time do any good. Except for incoming missile.

Many people seems to be using ECM more or less all the time. So 15 secs start up is .....?!?

 

Why don't give all a missile with 25 Km range and skip ECM? Or give us AWACS declare.

Falcon where are you?

 

If this is the patch taken by ED I will not by another simulator again. However ED is up to something good here with B.S. FC2 and A10C etc... -> can be Outstanding!

This is my opinion.

[mvsgas]

Sorry I could not resist :D

[Bucic]

I had big hopes for FC 2.0 regarding the ECM pain. How can 15 secs startup time do any good. Except for incoming missile.

Many people seems to be using ECM more or less all the time. So 15 secs start up is .....?!?

(*) I see you are missing one important fact. While flight sim development has to deal with limited resources and thus limited to do list the FC2 was limited even more and what we finaly got is far more fixes and feature rich product than anybody expected anyway. Outsiders (not members of the forums) see FC2 as every other product and they judge it as such. Insiders know that the only hopes one could have were for a FC1.x patch that would fix the very critical bugs (like ECM blinking), period. IMO there was an informal agreement between insiders and ED - "there will be either only a simple patch OR there will be something more but -no questions asked-". "No questions asked" meant "we will do what we can and there should be no whining". Basically LO+FC1 could have well been a discontinued product. No one expected improvements being done to the very foundations of the sim. The improvements were rather supposed to be done using available "tricks". This is how they dealt with the ECM issues for example.

 

That said FC2 brought a lot more. Not only adapting most of the DCS series environment but even contributing to the DCS engine (!). The new sound engine is a bright example.

 

Why don't give all a missile with 25 Km range and skip ECM? Or give us AWACS declare.

Falcon where are you?

Your idea is as good as totally disabling ECM. Simple as that. It would cripple the sim in much larger degree than current simplified ECM solutions.

 

If this is the patch taken by ED I will not by another simulator again. However ED is up to something good here with B.S. FC2 and A10C etc... -> can be Outstanding!

This is my opinion.

Yes, I'm with you - don't buy the next Flaming Cliffs :P

As to DCS. If you find FC2 simplifications (which, again, you may be 99% sure were the best compromises from attainable options) simply either focus on DCS or on Su-25/25T which, given that FC2 features the same environment that of DCS, are almost as good as Black Shark or upcoming A-10C.

 

Conclusions:

- FC2 is not to be measured by the same scale as a regular commercial product

- FC2 includes almostDCS Su-25

- today's word is . . . a t t a i n a b l e

Edited April 1, 2010 by Bucic

[LIONPRIDE]

(*) I see you are missing one important fact. While flight sim development has to deal with limited resources and thus limited to do list the FC2 was limited even more and what we finaly got is far more fixes and feature rich product than anybody expected anyway. Outsiders (not members of the forums) see FC2 as every other product and they judge it as such. Insiders know that the only hopes one could have were for a FC1.x patch that would fix the very critical bugs (like ECM blinking), period. IMO there was an informal agreement between insiders and ED - "there will be either only a simple patch OR there will be something more but -no questions asked-". "No questions asked" meant "we will do what we can and there should be no whining". Basically LO+FC1 could have well been a discontinued product. No one expected improvements being done to the very foundations of the sim. The improvements were rather supposed to be done using available "tricks". This is how they dealt with the ECM issues for example.

 

That said FC2 brought a lot more. Not only adapting most of the DCS series environment but even contributing to the DCS engine (!). The new sound engine is a bright example.

 

 

Your idea is as good as totally disabling ECM. Simple as that. It would cripple the sim in much larger degree than current simplified ECM solutions.

 

 

Yes, I'm with you - don't buy the next Flaming Cliffs :P

As to DCS. If you find FC2 simplifications (which, again, you may be 99% sure were the best compromises from attainable options) simply either focus on DCS or on Su-25/25T which, given that FC2 features the same environment that of DCS, are almost as good as Black Shark or upcoming A-10C.

 

Conclusions:

- FC2 is not to be measured by the same scale as a regular commercial product

- FC2 includes almostDCS Su-25

- today's word is . . . a t t a i n a b l e

 

 

/agree !

 

-I will miss you - :huh:

 

I hear HAWX is pretty good ...

 

 

.

[Bucic]

While I don't agree with midju on this particular issue I certainly don't approve replies in a fashion of "go play Ace Combat" or, the worst possible, "Why on't you make yourself a better one". IMO, neither of them shouldn't be addressed to a person pointing a legitimate issue backed up by proposed solutions and proper style.

[LIONPRIDE]

While I don't agree with midju on this particular issue I certainly don't approve replies in a fashion of "go play Ace Combat" or, the worst possible, "Why on't you make yourself a better one". IMO, neither of them shouldn't be addressed to a person pointing a legitimate issue backed up by proposed solutions and proper style.

 

 

It was "HAWX" - not Ace Combat

 

There were legitimate responses which didn't seem to appeal to his better nature or maturity - which he seems to lack. There are limitations and compromises that had to be made - but evidently that wasn't good enough so he felt the need to [

] <--click me

 

 

He even took it one step further by PM'ing others in a rude manner - sounds like tipical troll behavior to me- don't defend that sir.

 

DUDE ... have a wonderful day!

 

 

 

.

Edited April 2, 2010 by LIONPRIDE

[Bucic]

It was "HAWX" - not Ace Combat

No matta :P

 

There were legitimate responses which didn't seem to appeal to his better nature or maturity - which he seems to lack. There are limitations and compromises that had to be made - but evidently that wasn't good enough so he felt the need to [

] <--click me

 

 

He even took it one step further by PM'ing others in a rude manner - sounds like tipical troll behavior to me- don't defend that sir.

 

DUDE ... have a wonderful day!

 

 

 

.

I'm just saying that people with legitimate point sometimes do get some stupid replies like those two examples I gave. I was digressing, obviously, because I don't find his argumentation "proper", so I don't defend him.

[Downey Jr.]

Oh and by the way if your still waiting for Falcon 5.0 lol it will never be nor will fighter op's. They have been declared defunct. http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2974080/Has_Lead_Pursuit_pulled_the_pl.html#Post2974080

 

uh...that doesn't exactly 'put the nail in the coffin' for either one of them...all rumors with no official confirmation from any sources and FO looks to still be in heavy development...

 

however I wouldn't hold my breath for Lead Pursuit or FO anyways... except the fact that ED is showing everyone that you can still make a profit and have a fanbase for simulators so maybe more companies will wake up...

[asparagin]

As for why not make all missiles 25km and skip ECM? Well, because that's not the range the real missiles have, and the real aircraft have ECM!

 

Patience is a virtue.

[Wolf Rider]

hey dudes..

 

If you don't mind the cowboys calling the city dwellers, who have come up to the ranch for the week to try their hand at ranch handing (playing cowboy)... dudes, then it ain't an insult.

 

The term may not be an outright insult these days, but it sure used to be a disparaging one.

[XysteR]

EtherealN is correct. this is a sim and should remain so.

[FLANKERATOR]

Sorry I could not resist :D

 

:thumbup:

[midju]

Hi again,

I started this hope to end it.

 

I'm truly sorry about the pm I sent. Have clear that with person in mind.

I'm on defense here. I'm surprised of the general tone in this forum. Feels hostile. Not only in this thread. Sorry for not knowing the word "dude". Why this "go to PS3 etc...

 

I still think the present ECM strategy in the games could be improved. (AWACS declare is one)

 

Non of you know me. I can say one thing. I think I have flown more Military jet's in real life in my work and jobs then most of you. I Know what 9 g's feels like.

 

I love "hard-core" flightsims I'm on the learning curve. There are so many gifted and skilled Vpilots online. S! to them. They are my idols I I try to learn from them checking Tacview.

 

 

Ps. DE have my deepest respect. I have bought 3 license of FC 1 + one Back-shark and now FC 2.0 Ds.

 

I will never ever post here again. This is not due to disrespect to the owner, admin etc of this site.

 

The best to all.

Edited April 3, 2010 by midju