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Sustained Turn Rate of Fighters


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I have two questions

 

1. What is the sustained turn rate of the F-15C, MiG-29A and Su-27 (Real aircraft)

2. Please test (I would like ED Testers to do this preferably) in FC2 for same aircraft

 

Please post values on graph... cheers

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^^ Su27 outturns F15 at almost all speeds?

 

Depends very much on fuel

 

An example

More

http://lockon.co.uk/?end_pos=10&scr=list&page=4#471

http://lockon.co.uk/index.php?end_pos=574&scr=default

 

There is nothing more from ED so I'm interested too.

 

Unsure if that is Fc1 or Fc2

Mig29 is considerably better in FC2 compared to fc1 from what I've seen

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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Yoda, stop the magic and share your charts! :sly:

 

I honestly would if I had some

S = SPARSE(m,n) abbreviates SPARSE([],[],[],m,n,0). This generates the ultimate sparse matrix, an m-by-n all zero matrix. - Matlab help on 'sparse'

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Reason I am asking is because we tested FC2 F-15 vs MiG-29A and G version and Su-27 and the F-15 is way off... at low speed (about 180-200 kts) it has about 24deg/sec sustained turn rate with flaps down, at supposedly its corner speed of 350 kts it has about 17deg/sec, and bellow and above 350 kts (even at 600 kts) it has 18deg/sec so it's turning ability is least at corner speed and greatest at minimal speed... just not right

 

The MiG-29 on the other hand is piss poor at slow speed and has best turn rate at about 700 km/h (which at least is something correct)

 

The Flanker is same as MiG-29 and has no chance against F-15C at slow speed and at higher speed it bleeds speed quickly bringing it quickly into slower range and if you didn't have a chance to get a sot off initially when you had good turn rate you have no chance against F-15...

 

The MiG-29 buffets at 21° AoA and accelerates better (but not by much) then F-15C in vertical and it can keep up with F-15 above 650km/h but the moment it gets slow it's toast.. also as you pull G MiG-29 rolls really really bad and you have to offload in order to roll, the F-15 does not have this problem

 

We tested this even with full load on the F-15.. that thing is well of in sustained turn rate bellow and above it's rated corner speed.

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Even with flaps up 200kts and F-15 out turns both the MIG and the Flanker... easy.

 

So what is sustained turn rate supposed to be for the MiG-29?


Edited by Kuky

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Im yet to test FC2 due to other commitments but will start next week. If the above is true then ED really need to sort it out asap since this is the bread and butter of most A2A dogfighters out there. Id love to see some hard data ROT vs Speed for all the fighters.

 

ED really need to get this right. Im sure they will given time.

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Im yet to test FC2 due to other commitments but will start next week. If the above is true then ED really need to sort it out asap since this is the bread and butter of most A2A dogfighters out there. Id love to see some hard data ROT vs Speed for all the fighters.

 

ED really need to get this right. Im sure they will given time.

 

This, FPS drops with Shkval turned on, excellent Su-25 flight models - it all shows attack aircrafts was a way to go! :chair:

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Here is what happens (it is screwed up right now very bad, but also noticed by Devs ... .. ...)

 

If you sustain in a turn (you have Angle of Attack and logically with it Drag).

 

Now, if you hit the Flaps at "ingame-limts" (250kts) you not only create lift, but you do also "kick down your nose" (reducing AoA and drag same time).

But, due to missing drag coefficients (i guess) of the flaps surfaces you basically have exploited your own drag by reducing your AoA and you gain speed, and suddenly you can sustain more Gs with flaps (at same speed) as without.

 

Imaging this for second - let it sink - ...if you fly and you hit the boards (which have deflection angles - (minus*) AoA ) you produce drag, logically.

Now, the flaps are on the bottom of your jet (airflow, deflection angles) and think now about the surface sizes about your flaps compared to the boards.

This should DRAMATICALLY CRITICALLY reduce your airspeed !!! AND your rollrate (which is "life" in scissors).

 

PS: I tried to explain it in simple words and DCS would really do themself a favour by avoiding this issue just by allowing flaps in combination with gears only.

 

CopY: AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 11-2F-15,

VOLUME 3 F-15--OPERATIONS PROCEDURES

 

3.14.3. Do not extend flaps to improve aircraft maneuvering performance during ACBT.


Edited by A.S

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@Kuky:

 

That is how it should look like, even though those are just few examples (can not post all) under specific configurations and grossweights: PW-100 engines (lockon 2.0 uses PW-220 supposidly)

 

f15c1.jpg

 

f15c2.jpg

 

f15caccel.jpg


Edited by A.S
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Here's the result of my test. This is almost the opposite of what it is supposed to be. This is a standard setup - 50% fuel, 1000ft, 8 missiles. The flaps down performance at low speed is ridiculous, and the supposedly 350KIAS corner speed turns out to be one of the slowest. Who was the Beta Tester for flight dynamics? These are all sustained turns. On page 235 of the FC2 Flight Manual ENG is a diagram of the typical flight dynamics used, however, this has not been the case for the F-15 after these tests. The F-15 is basically a raptor with flaps down... it would be wonderul if ED could invert this graph.

 

roth.png


Edited by 3Sqn_Dubb
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Yep thanks AS, noted the explanation of flaps reduced AoA. However, this doesn't really explain anything to do with the form of the results of my test. Even if you exclude the data point I collected at 170KIAS with flaps down, the rest of the data which is flaps up still appears as the inverse of the 'actual' data charts you've provided in your posts. I'm in the process of collecting the data from all of the aircraft in the game. At this stage, it is only the F-15 which seems to be way off the mark.

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Yep thanks AS, noted the explanation of flaps reduced AoA. However, this doesn't really explain anything to do with the form of the results of my test. Even if you exclude the data point I collected at 170KIAS with flaps down, the rest of the data which is flaps up still appears as the inverse of the 'actual' data charts you've provided in your posts. I'm in the process of collecting the data from all of the aircraft in the game. At this stage, it is only the F-15 which seems to be way off the mark.

 

Thx Dubb.

 

Id be very interested in the data collected presented as graphs if possible (overlayed?)

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Yep thanks AS, noted the explanation of flaps reduced AoA. However, this doesn't really explain anything to do with the form of the results of my test. Even if you exclude the data point I collected at 170KIAS with flaps down, the rest of the data which is flaps up still appears as the inverse of the 'actual' data charts you've provided in your posts. I'm in the process of collecting the data from all of the aircraft in the game. At this stage, it is only the F-15 which seems to be way off the mark.

 

The data i posted is F-15A-D manual, but remind you, those are PW-100 engines and not PW-220 like in lockon. Nevertheless its a pointer in terms or characteristics. Have fun plotting the lockon charts...:D (forget the flaps...do it without them, cuz flaps are screwed...look, if the rest at least is logic, just a suggestion)

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Flaps are screwed up. If you watch your stick as you deploy flaps you see the stick move forward. If without flaps turn rates are more on the money, then hopefully it will be an easy fix.

 

Dubb care to some more of your excellent testing without flaps please?

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All i can say is this....over n over n over n over ...

 

Manual F15:

 

quote:

 

AIR FORCE INSTRUCTION 11-2F-15,

VOLUME 3 F-15--OPERATIONS PROCEDURES

 

3.14.3. Do not extend flaps to improve aircraft maneuvering performance during ACBT.

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What i find very cute though, NOW the TEFs (trailing edge flaps) on the flanker in 2.0 react in automated ways, like the LEFs. very sweet ! Depedning flight situation the TEFs are controlled by computer.

Why not doing same for the F-15? <<< ?

 

Done that ..then just allow manual flaps only with gears.....correct the drags ..and pure sweetheart old issue solved in a simple reasonable way.


Edited by A.S

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What i find very cute though, NOW the TEFs (trailing edge flaps) on the flanker in 2.0 react in automated ways, like the LEFs. very sweet ! Depedning flight situation the TEFs are controlled by computer.

Why not doing same for the F-15? <<< ?

 

Done that ..then just allow manual flaps only with gears.....correct the drags ..and pure sweetheart old issue solved in a simple reasonable way.

 

It sounds like a solid idea unless I am missing something.

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