Polish president and politics die in air crash...

[Namenlos Ein]

http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/190459/

В небе над местом крушения облака сложились так, что на рассвете ясно стал виден след идущего на посадку Ту-154, над ним — католический крест.

Google Translate:

In the sky above the crash site clouds were such that at dawn it became clear visible trail coming in to land Tu-154 with a Catholic cross above it.

Strange, but in the News they say this cloud formation was shot in the Moscow.

[VMFA117_Poko]

Anyone knows why they was in same plane?

No, unfortunately no. It's all very weird...

[Amarok_73]

No, unfortunately no. It's all very weird...

<IRONY>

It's about cost cutting. Only one igla was sufficient to make a room for new politics - more compliant for neighboring countries, who wish to treat us to another partition of Poliand. </IRONY>

 

Very interresting times come for us...

Edited April 12, 2010 by Pipok

[topol-m]

It's about cost cutting. Only one igla was sufficient to make a room for new politics - more compliant for neighboring countries, who wish to treat us to another partition of Poliand. Very interresting times come for us...

 

What igla? What threatening? AFAIK there is still an investigation going :huh:

[Yo-Yo]

My deepest condolences to the people of Poland. Katyn was our common tragedy... the new tragedy is in our hearts too.

[Amarok_73]

What igla? What threatening? AFAIK there is still an investigation going :huh:

Read between the lines... :smilewink:

[sniffer]

Pipek - it's not good place to irony...

 

And it's not cost cutting. After last crash with a lot of 'high authorities (CASA C-295M) were applied some security rules which weren't broken! It doesn't enough...

Edited April 13, 2010 by sniffer
broken*

[Amarok_73]

Pipek (...)

PipOk. First try to sort out such a basic things, then ask someone for help in understanding irony.

[TorwaK]

My condolences to you dear Polish friends. Also I should inform you Turkish administration announced that the day of Lech Kaczynksk funeral is going to be national mourning here.

 

RIP who died at the plane crash.

[Bucic]

One of the first proper attempts of reconstruction of the tragic flight

 

http://www.tvn24.pl/-1,1651962,0,1,rekonstrukcja-tragicznego-lotu,wiadomosc.html

 

edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CBC92-3blI

 

 

 

The ravine

 

Now, one of the journalists showed a wide, deep ravine that Tu-154 overflew. Could this be that the pilots were using radar altimeter at this time (the last few hundred to kilometer of final approach) so they got a "false" reading of increased altitude and when they flew over flat terrain they got the "real" reading again? This time below safe altitude and too late to make a recovery. This is what could have critically contributed to the tragedy.

 

Take a look at 01:37 of the linked video. The dashed line is the ideal descend path while the dashed line is the descend path of the Tu-154.

 

Here's the real look at the ravine http://www.tvn24.pl/0,1651982,0,1,podlecial-dwa-razy-do-gory--a-potem-bum,wiadomosc.html

Edited April 13, 2010 by Bucic

[sniffer]

PipOk (...)

 

Now go and learn too. Start from word: sarcasm

[Bucic]

 

 

 

The figure from Russian TV points to a possible strong wind blow. The graph from the Polish TV seems to confirm such scenario (rapid alt loss on a very short distance).

Edited April 16, 2010 by Bucic

[sniffer]

Fresh satellite shot of accident place:

 

[Bucic]

This looks like they had chances if not for the trees and other obstacles. It has always amazed me how come people still don't go for flat areas around airfields. There's always a lot of junk adjacent to the runway. Remember fuel tanks at the end of some runway in Brasil?! There are also morons who decide to allow building dumping grounds near runways (they attract lots of birds).

Edited April 13, 2010 by Bucic

[EtherealN]

First of all, again, my condolences to the people of Poland. My country was hurt enough by the losses of Olof Palme and later Anna Lindh, I have a hard time grasping what a loss like this would be like.

 

With that, as a pilot, I must say two things: I am apalled at the sheer waste of this mistake - it should not have happened. But I also have to say that I am familiar with the human-factor causes that can create accidents like this - it's one of those cases where training has to win over the pilot's instincts, and that is always a difficult hurdle. (I myself always had issues with visual approach, which is a bit strange and not quite the same as happened here.)

 

Lastly, I want to also pay my respects to the people of Russia, who have been a good example of honorable conduct in a circumstance like this. With luck my work will bring me back to both countries again soon.

[sniffer]

This looks like they had chances if not for the trees and other obstacles.

 

The same I thought when I saw it...

[Cougar12dk]

I just heard on the news, that they've recovered the black box and there was nothing wrong with the plane and everything points to the president being at fault (for pressuring the pilot). This is according to the radio transmissions (or intercom maybe?).

[flanker1]

oh my god. . . if this is the crash site - it is only about 300 meters away from the runway. . . have a look at google maps - smolensk.

 

where do you get the photo?

 

a tragedy. . . all over. . .

Edited April 13, 2010 by flanker1

[Boberro]

points to the president being at fault (for pressuring the pilot).

 

I heard this same and I wouldn't be suprised, however I will keep my lips sealed with my opinion cause don't want to make bad discussion. It has happened, nothing we can do.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Boberro

[Bucic]

I heard this same and I wouldn't be suprised, however I will keep my lips sealed cause don't want to make bad discussion. It has happened, nothing we can do.

Proving this will take more than just stating that the aircraft was fine.

[sniffer]

where do you get the photo?

 

From internet :)

 

AvHerald

 

Published by DigitalGlobe

[Vekkinho]

Landing with conditions like this (visibility < 50m) asks for ILS. There's no such thing with Smolensk AB as it's an old military AB not commercial airport.

 

Pilot was using radar altimeter to land but was distracted by ravine it's evident from flightpath graphic shown in posts above where we can see how pilot maintains radar altitude as plane flies parallel to the sloping terrain.

 

First contact with an obstacle (tree) that happened 1200m away from treshold probably made the plane turn slightly to the left and that's why we see debris scattered in different direction from runway heading.

 

Whoever decided the plane should land with conditions like this instead of diverting to Minsk or Moscow is the one responsible. There are smarter ways of throwing gloves before someone, stunts and risk of human lives should be avoided.

[ZaltysZ]

There is version blaming L.Kaczyński for having VIP syndrome. This is based on accident in August of 2008, when pilot refused to land in Tbilisi and landed in Azerbaijan instead.

 

However, I read one article on this matter in Lithuanian news portal yesterday. Lithuanian ex-president (now) V.Adamkus was flying in the same plane with L.Kaczyński, when pilot have chosen not to land in Tbilisi. V.Adamkus told that pilot had come, described the situation and said, that he wasn't going to land in Tbilisi. L.Kaczyński was only interested in if transport was arranged for trip from Azerbaijan to Tbilisi or not, and hadn't any further questions to the crew after he got confirmation.

[Bucic]

Landing with conditions like this (visibility < 50m) asks for ILS.

Who told you that the visibility was only 50 m? BTW, are there official meteo data for the moment of crash?

 

There is version blaming L.Kaczyński for having VIP syndrome. This is based on accident in August of 2008, when pilot refused to land in Tbilisi and landed in Azerbaijan instead.

 

However, I read one article on this matter in Lithuanian news portal yesterday. Lithuanian ex-president (now) V.Adamkus was flying in the same plane with L.Kaczyński, when pilot have chosen not to land in Tbilisi. V.Adamkus told that pilot had come, described the situation and said, that he wasn't going to land in Tbilisi. L.Kaczyński was only interested in if transport was arranged for trip from Azerbaijan to Tbilisi or not, and hadn't any further questions to the crew after he got confirmation.

Thank you for this valuable information.

[Vekkinho]

Who told you that the visibility was only 50 m? BTW, are there official meteo data for the moment of crash?

 

 

50m thru 1/2 statute mile visibility...makes no difference!

 

Military airports. Unless otherwise prescribed by the Administrator, each person operating a civil aircraft under IFR into or out of a military airport shall comply with the instrument approach procedures and the takeoff and landing minimum prescribed by the military authority having jurisdiction of that airport.

 

So when Smolensk ATC called for wave off pilots should comply, be it a president or peasant, ATC is in God mode here...

Edited April 14, 2010 by Vekkinho