Question about stable flying - Super noob Helo driver

[Bushmanni]

I don't think anyone can hit reliably with rockets unless shooting from very close range. If I fire all of my rockets in one salvo while in stable flight they will spread over a large area which tells me that they are very inaccurate mechanically. While it's not easy to aim with rockets, I think after some training it's possible to aim more accurately than the rockets can actually hit.

[BKLronin]

If I fire all of my rockets in one salvo while in stable flight they will spread over a large area which tells me that they are very inaccurate mechanically

 

MY experinces showed that the rockets are pretty precise at 2-3 km fired one slave. When you release them on mid or high setting they will affect the position of the chopper too much to be on point.

 

Anyway I can hardly hit something with the rockets directly except I´m circling around a tank :P

 

Practicing is the key like you´ve said. But it should be possible at a distance between 2-3 km I guess.

[GGTharos]

First point: RL Ka-50 pilots almost never push FD on. They always fly with the AP influences on.

 

Second Point: Rockets are artillery, not precision munitions. Use them to strafe an area of interest.

The best way to do this safely (IMHO) is to start your run-in beyond rocket launch range (at around 4km say), aproach at a stable, controlled speed and aimpoint, and launch from max range. The higher the dive angle against your target the better, too, though at several km distance you just simply might not be able to pull that off well enough. When you are shooting with a low dive angle, the geometry is against you (very easy to under/over shoot).

If you feel safe aproaching closer, one of the most accurate techniques (according to some army study anyway ;) ) is to attack from a distance of 500-800m with a dive angle of 30 degrees.

Finally - remember to have countermeasures set up to release throughout your attack automatically, and try not to over-fly the target.

[BKLronin]

Thank you! Thats a good guidance for practice :)

[Booger]

Second Point: Rockets are artillery, not precision munitions. Use them to strafe an area of interest.

 

Exactly.

 

Unfortunately the rocket model isn't accurately portrayed. I can fire rockets, hit reasonably close to infantry, yet they all remain. For a non precision weapon, you have to hit precisely?

 

:music_whistling:

[Distiler]

Exactly.

 

Unfortunately the rocket model isn't accurately portrayed. I can fire rockets, hit reasonably close to infantry, yet they all remain. For a non precision weapon, you have to hit precisely?

 

:music_whistling:

 

That's more about blast radius. Try to use blast-fragmentation variant of S-8 rockets (S-8OFP2) against infantry or no-armored targets.

[Booger]

:doh:

 

Shows you how familiar I am with the weaponry. Thanks for the reminder.

[GGTharos]

Fairly precisely. Even anti-personnel variants are ineffective beyond some 10m from impact.

 

Exactly.

 

Unfortunately the rocket model isn't accurately portrayed. I can fire rockets, hit reasonably close to infantry, yet they all remain. For a non precision weapon, you have to hit precisely?

 

:music_whistling:

[Frederf]

Rockets have marginal use in DCS:BS due to how they're modeled (even the OFP2 ones if you're lucky enough to have them loaded) and also how most missions are created. I like to fire them all in one pass, verify nothing was hurt by the little spitwads, and then go for effective weaponry.

 

I harbor a resentment toward proponents as "FD on is the only way to fly." I always suspect a childish or lazy attitude toward a feature of the aircraft that in most cases, used properly, increases mission performance.

 

If you are NOT holding down the trimmer when using AP and are trying ANY kind of maneuvering, the helicopter will fight you to keep it in it's trimmed location.

 

Now, I've done a fair bit of testing but this isn't strictly true. The AP hold won't fight you in the sense that you have to wrestle it out of its 20% control authority "well" before you have control. There seems to be a de-sensitization that happens with the hold in effect, but not fighting.

 

What's strange is I know that real-world procedure is to maneuver and tap-trim, rarely is a press-maneuver-release method used. And yet cyclic authority is different between both methods so these are two ideas that are hard for me to reconcile. Overall I've never felt that the AP holds were anything other than natural tools at my disposal (opposed to demons), apart from times where I did something drastically wrong to deserve it.

 

I think the AP holds and trim get a bad name from the habit of using the button too early and too hastily, before the aircraft and control inputs have really settled down to their real desired values. If you wait until your arm/stick doesn't move for a good "one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand" duration after the maneuver before trimming, it's surprising just how smooth trimming and holds can be.

[Bushmanni]

I save my rockets for soft defenseless targets like trucks and infantry as those are the only kind that can be engaged safely with the precision method GGTharos explained. My dive angle has been around 10-15 degrees though. But as the default loadout is usually the anti-tank version, I haven't bothered with deeper dive angles as the splash damage is laughable and trucks are equally hard to hit directly from side as from above. I have tried the Frederfs method few times and got similar results. My aim was perfect as the targets were dead center of the explosions, but I never got a kill.

[Avimimus]

I can sometimes hit a BTR with a pair of rockets at close range or a truck with a barrage at long range, but it is far from enjoyable. If the aircraft was an acceptable gun platform the rockets have very nice firepower and ballistics/dispersion so as to be quite effective - but this doesn't appear to be the case.

 

I guess I'll have to rely on 9A4172 and UPK pods in the campaign (or simply fly combat missions only in FC2). Freeflight is still fun of course.

[BKLronin]

Ok unguided -equal- large are softer targets with exceptions.

 

There was an event wich made me thinking about unguided effectiveness. It was on a Multiplayermap of Dragon Weapon Training. Not sure anymore who he was but he killed 3 tanks in a row with a single unguided rocket salvo.

 

Just awesome and I guess a bit of luck involved.

Shows how efficient they could be.

[Sherlock]

Flying without the AP buttons is easy, you just have to pay attention to the aircraft all the time...

 

Zahedia, the autopilot channels actually do ALSO serve autopilot functions. They have like 20% control authority over the chopper and attempt to return it to the heading, bank, pitch, (and altitude if enabled) that the helicopter was in when the trim button was LAST RELEASED. If you never pressed the trim button, then it's the heading, pitch, roll, etc. that you started the game in, I believe. Many of us do all of our manuvers with the trim button held down all the time, and only release the trim button when we want to fly in a straight line for a while. An alternate method is to use the flight director (the fifth blue button by the four blue autopilot buttons, labelled "FD AP"), which as far as I know, disables the heading, bank, pitch, and altitude hold portions of the autopilot channels while leaving the stability portions active. I've tried it a few times and I don't like it; additionally, you have to turn it off before you can enter autohover.

 

Wow, thanks for clarifying that actually. I always wondered why I would have to fight the controls.

[Bushmanni]

OK, I tried that 30 degree dive from 1km with rockets and found it to be very hard. I would gather speed very fast and get out of trim and basically have a very narrow time window to get a shot off. I wasn't able to line up accurately before forced to pull up. I assume I'm doing something wrong but what? Or do I just suck?

[BKLronin]

I gues you where just a bit too low but you definetely need to practise that with requirement of good helo controll abillity.

[GGTharos]

You aren't doing anything wrong - just be prepared to to launch your rockets at the right moment. Don't expect to stabilize the pipper for long - at that distance from the opponent, taking 5 sec to stabilize = 2.5 sec tracking + 2.5 sec shooting at you from just about anything with a gun, and at that distance its hard to miss.

 

OK, I tried that 30 degree dive from 1km with rockets and found it to be very hard. I would gather speed very fast and get out of trim and basically have a very narrow time window to get a shot off. I wasn't able to line up accurately before forced to pull up. I assume I'm doing something wrong but what? Or do I just suck?

[Vitesse2l]

Regarding rockets, I have read advice that once aligned, you should adjust with the collective rather than cyclic control.

 

Certainly a long steady run-in helps.

 

Helps the ground defences, that is.

[GGTharos]

Here is real use footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEHJc1pTkHc

[Avimimus]

The footage shows much smaller oscillations than I'm tending to get (my piper is much more stable, but inputs easily cause longer and large oscillations).

 

I guess real Kamov drivers actually know to use trim...? :D

[ARM505]

Yeah, I constantly have the feeling in game that the helo has more inertia than IRL, based on all the vids I've watched, so it bobs around far more, and is harder to stabilise, even briefly, on a point. If I had to guess, it definitely looks easier to aim IRL, but then again the pilot does have the benefit of a full set of controls with all the feedback needed!

[Frederf]

I think a lot of the real life videos don't show such a combat heavy load, especially fuel. Try loading up the Ka-50 in DCS in "flight demonstration trim" with 25% fuel and no ordinance. It's amazing how different it feels.

[ARM505]

'K, that's just a liiiittle bit condescending :) Yes, oddly enough I'm aware what a difference weight makes, and again, wierdly enough I've tried that. Same feeling. Again, just my personal impression, based on watching everything I can of the Ka50 in flight, then watching my own tracks using (for example) max pedal authority in what I judge to be a similar configuration and weight. I'm not going to argue though, I know it won't change anything, so no worries.

[zahedia3]

There is no crossbleed capability, the APU must be running and the green valve light on the start panel must be out. As a side note, you should wait about 30~60 seconds between starting engines, because the work makes the APU exhaust gas temperature go up. Also, wait 60 seconds before spooling the engines up from idle to auto.

 

I saw the EGT spike a bit, good call. You guys are great in this forum. Thanks for the help.