Coming from Falcon...Will I be disappointed?

[robmypro]

Rob, lot's of good advice here - I'll chime in.

I came with the same questions in my mind when I first started up with DCS again.

 

DCS series offer quite a excellent "cockpit" simulation as well as the battlefield around you.

FC2 may not provide the same experience cockpit wise - but as for a battlefield experience I say you may get a positive supprise.

As you have noticed, there are no dynamic campaigns (and there have been like 6252354 requests for it, including myself chiming in on that as well) ;)

 

But - .... *but* ... the online experience makes up for the "flaws" (as many of the F4 pilots may call it).

Both FC2 and DCS shines when you fly online, with friends and voicecom. Thats where I fell in love with the series.

 

o7. Hope to see you in the skies one day. :)

 

Thanks Panzer. I'm looking forward to both sims, and maybe we'll see each other online. I'm going to need a lot of help!

 

Thanks for chiming in on this thread and the one on the unified battlefield.

[funkee]

Post some screenshots of f4. It all looked flat and plain to me, no detail no sense of 3d at all imo.

 

 

I come from Falcon4 too, and there is nothing close to its unique atmosphere and feeling of a real warfare. FC compared to Falcon is rather kind of arcade shooter, with great graphics and playbility, while DCS has all it's advantages + high level of realism, expanded environment and clickable cockpit, but will never get that unique soul.

Edited April 17, 2010 by funkee

[Frostie]

I fly Falcon AF/OF for a change when a bit of jet switchology appeals to me but mostly when im bored of MP silky smooth adrenaline pumping Modern Air Combat and team tom foolery, which frankly is not often. :gun_rifle:

 

Falcon for me has become more of a side order like FS, when the mood takes me before im back where the real meal is.

[DetroitDieseL]

 

I come from Falcon4 too, and there is nothing closer to its unique atmosphere and feeling of a real warfare. FC compared to Falcon is rather kind of arcade shooter, with great graphics and playbility, while DCS has all it's advantages + incredible level of realism, expanded environment and clickable cockpit, but will never get that unique soul.

 

Yeah, it looks the same.....

 

I think FC and BS look and feel much more realistic.

[robmypro]

Okay guys, again thanks for all the feedback and opinions. I should have LOMAC in a couple days, so I'll let you know me opinion once I have a chance to work with it a while.

 

Any tips on getting started? Online docs, quick start guides. etc.? Also, any recommendations on the plane to start with?

[robmypro]

I fly Falcon AF/OF for a change when a bit of jet switchology appeals to me but mostly when im bored of MP silky smooth adrenaline pumping Modern Air Combat and team tom foolery, which frankly is not often. :gun_rifle:

 

Falcon for me has become more of a side order like FS, when the mood takes me before im back where the real meal is.

 

If you are right I am in for a treat! I'll post my impressions in a few days.

[thaFunkster]

Bring on DCS:A10!! Then DCS:F/A-18, then DCS: F15E, then...

 

Please!

[theGozr]

No DCS: MiG-29 ( dual seat ) for a complete experience with two pilots

DCS:SU-30 for the same reason !!

 

:)

[E61-v1T1]

This is the subject of a lifetime.

 

I think for evaluation, some factors must be present;

 

- Personal preference

 

- The desired simulation

 

- Feeling

 

Developing my opinion;

 

Three simulators are mentioned here, from my point of view, there are three products that should not come into comparison because they are just completely different.

 

A little of features;

 

F4, is dedicated principally to simulate the avionics instruments, radar, and weapons systems of the F-16, (hence the need for a clickable cockpit), but leaves drastically others simulations in the background as physics, graphics and flight model.

 

Eagle Dynamics and FC2, represent the physics simulation, a more realistic sensation of flight, greater immersion in combat flight, attractive graphics and decoration.

 

Eagle Dynamics develops mainly Russian coalition, and the values given to the weapon system and flight instruments are quite acceptable. Same without clickable cockpits, really not needed. One of the reasons why we all end up doing a profile SST (for F4 and BS too..), It is because we ended up looking for a better gameplay, in combat, you can not fly and click at the same time, only those with "tuch screen"(prepares the wallet) are closer to a control simulation more interesting or "realistic".

 

DCS Black Shark. The best combat flight simulator ever seen, it has all the qualities most searched by any virtual pilot, complies with all requirements!. Without presence of DCS A-10C, there is no rival, for sure. But here we are talking about a simulator dedicated to Ka-50 helicopter, it's another world!.

 

Conclusion;

 

So, At the end what you prefer?, What factors of simulation are you looking for? What do you feel flying in each of them. Do you like planes or helicopters?.

 

The best will always test it yourself, so buy FC2 and BS. I am sure you will not be disappointed!

 

:thumbup:

 

S!

[WindWpn]

You know what really gives Falcon it's soul? Its the AI comms immersion. There is no other sim out there with the level of feeling you are there actively interacting with AI from wingmen to ATC, to Chalis 3/FAC.

 

All in all, I have all of them from IL2 UP2.01, DCS:BS, FalconAF, FF5+, FSX, LockOn FC2, and none other than Falcon offer that feeling of simply being there interacting with AI "people." The comms in Falcon is the magic. DCS BS comes close with user created campaigns such as Georgian Havoc with the custom comms, but it is scripted where in Falcon when I call to "Request Picture" the response is real time, specific and immerse. The "Good Morning" on calling Inbound in Falcon and the detailed ATC procedures all add to a feeling of being there.

 

Its all about the comms in falcon which gives it its unique soul, at least for me.

[WindWpn]

Hopefully, if there is one improvement to the DCS series beyond offering more content to fly, it would be the inclusion of interactive comms at a level found similar to Falcon.

[funkee]

...I think FC and BS look and feel much more realistic.

 

FC more realistic than Falcon? C'mon... :)

 

You know what really gives Falcon it's soul? Its the AI comms immersion There is no other sim out there with the level of feeling you are there actively interacting with AI...

 

True. Speeches, background coms with AI, ATC, AWACS... Thats it. I didnt try FC2 yet, but FC and DCS are very poor at that aspect of simulation.

Edited April 27, 2010 by funkee

[Panzertard]

You know what really gives Falcon it's soul? Its the AI comms immersion. There is no other sim out there with the level of feeling you are there actively interacting with AI from wingmen to ATC, to Chalis 3/FAC.

 

 

Now there's an aspect I forgot about - the background chatter from other flights and AI outcries. Yes, I miss that part for SP.

Not sure how well it would work in MP.

[GGTharos]

Jane's F/A-18.

 

You know what really gives Falcon it's soul? Its the AI comms immersion. There is no other sim out there with the level of feeling you are there actively interacting with AI from wingmen to ATC, to Chalis 3/FAC.

[S77th-konkussion]

Definitely not disappointing as long as you can appreciate LOMAC for what it is. Remember that LOMAC is the gateway to DCS. All indications are that DCS will become the simmer's dream come true- where oil & water finally mix. (looks and delicious complexity/realism)

 

There is an F16 coming that will likely retire the venerable Falcon title forever. That's not a shot- just the real world. It may be a ways off, but it's on our side of the horizon.

 

If the overall Black Shark model impressed you at all- think of the features that DCS A10 will have, and what new s**t Eagle can cook up between now and it's eventual release. Then apply that thought to DCS Apache, and DCS F16..

 

We all benefit when Eagle does well. Hopefully more Falcon pilots will join you.

[ShadowVonChadwick]

Okay guys, again thanks for all the feedback and opinions. I should have LOMAC in a couple days, so I'll let you know me opinion once I have a chance to work with it a while.

 

Any tips on getting started? Online docs, quick start guides. etc.? Also, any recommendations on the plane to start with?

 

Hi rob Im also from old schools sims like Longbow2, Falcon4, LockOn & recently Free Falcon5. I still miss the working campaibn & have a hard cover manual hidden away safe with other important docs.

 

You will love the DCS series, Black Shark with its working cockpit, realistic flight model, exelant balistics and awsome firepower. And it looks good.

 

FC2 is what I would call an afternoon snack while I wait for The A10 equal to the Ka-50.

 

Cheers but dont throw away Falcon yet.

Edited April 17, 2010 by ShadowVonChadwick

[SFJackBauer]

There are several points where Falcon still outshines other combat sims... starting by the F-16 :)

 

- In Falcon you can use guided A2G munitions in a fast multirole jet, which can also defend itself decently.

 

- Falcon has the complete implementation of F-16 HOTAS and avionics system.

 

- Falcon has varied, large scale theaters available (Korea, Balkans, Middle East, Israel etc)

 

- Falcon has a working IADS (integrated air defense system), where enemy aircraft, awacs, ground observers and SAMs all cooperate to kill you (talking here in campaign mode obviously).

 

- Falcon has a campaign system that, although unrealistic in some aspects, still offers huge replayability and variety. For example, you target not only ground and air targets, but also logistical, infrastructure and C3I military targets which affect the campaing direction.

 

- Falcon has (also in campaign mode) workable OCA (offensive counter air) strikes, where you can bomb an enemy airfield runways, tower and supply depots to reduce its effectiveness.

 

- Falcon fully supports cockpit builders.

 

- Falcon has A2G radar.

 

- Falcon has the Sniper pod.

 

- Falcon has NVGs.

 

BUT playing Falcon vanilla without any public mod (OF / FF) is a waste of time IMHO.

[RvEFuSiOn]

Hey guys, long time Falcon fan deciding to give LOMAC a shot. I've purchased LOMAC and FC 2. Can anyone tell me the biggest differences between the two? Falcon is so focused on procedures, and doing the right thing at the right time. It really simulates being in the world of an F-16 pilot well.

 

Can anyone contrast this with LOMAC and FC 2? What will I be gaining and losing?

 

Thanks.

 

 

I pride my self on calling my self first a falcon pilot then, any other sim pilot....

I flew the flanker series, then the lockon series then FC1 and FC2, along with many many sims over the years.

Over the years i picked up falcon after being in the flanker/lockon community and believe me... till this date nothing comes close.... yes yes no matter what anyone says falcon still is the king of sims, particularly F4AF due to its stability and extra features.

 

Lockon is not a sim, so dont expect that when you fly it... Yes it does have few elements of realism in a sim, but they are few and far between. You will not find the dynamic campaign and nowhere near the complexity of planning that you have in falcon nor the weapons. It's more of get in the jet and go kill stuff, which is not a bad thing, and is fun from time to time. However long term as a falcon pilot you might get bored of the repetitiveness that you will witness in Lockon and the arcade style approach to flying done by many. Few squadrons do obviously employ or try to employ a realistic approach though.

All i can say is don't expect realism or you will be disappointed fast, but you can expect to have many hours of fun in FC2, it is a big improvement over FC1. With that being said however, DCS:Blackshark is realistic and is a sim!

 

I hope this has been objective answer for you, have fun and happy simming err gaming! :-)

[ShadowVonChadwick]

I pride my self on calling my self first a falcon pilot then, any other sim pilot....

I flew the flanker series, then the lockon series then FC1 and FC2, along with many many sims over the years.

Over the years i picked up falcon after being in the flanker/lockon community and believe me... till this date nothing comes close.... yes yes no matter what anyone says falcon still is the king of sims, particularly F4AF due to its stability and extra features.

 

Lockon is not a sim, so dont expect that when you fly it... Yes it does have few elements of realism in a sim, but they are few and far between. You will not find the dynamic campaign and nowhere near the complexity of planning that you have in falcon nor the weapons. It's more of get in the jet and go kill stuff, which is not a bad thing, and is fun from time to time. However long term as a falcon pilot you might get bored of the repetitiveness that you will witness in Lockon and the arcade style approach to flying done by many. Few squadrons do obviously employ or try to employ a realistic approach though.

All i can say is don't expect realism or you will be disappointed fast, but you can expect to have many hours of fun in FC2, it is a big improvement over FC1. With that being said however, DCS:Blackshark is realistic and is a sim!

 

I hope this has been objective answer for you, have fun and happy simming err gaming! :-)

............................................................................

Almost all of what he said except Lock has never been arcade,,just no dynamic campaign, but Im shore I can remember making consecutive missions(Minny campaigns) where dead vehicles carried from one mission to the next?? not the same but I had fun.

 

Cheers Shad

[Boberro]

You know what really gives Falcon it's soul? Its the AI comms immersion. There is no other sim out there with the level of feeling you are there actively interacting with AI from wingmen to ATC, to Chalis 3/FAC.

 

 

This solution (maybe not as big as in Falcon) is present even in NovaLogic's MiG-29 Fulcrum or F-16 Multirole Fighter (release about 1999) IIRC. It gives you deep immersion, I was a bit suprised why it wasn't introduced in FC 1 from 2004...

[dwpenney]

Yes. You will lose the procedures and, most importantly to any Falcon vet ran, you will lose the dynamic campaign and the fluid battlefield.

 

You have to look at it from a different perspective if you want to enjoy FC2 - something along the lines of a 'lite' sim compared to Falcon. But don't take that the wrong way! I am not trying to knock FC2 but just trying to move your expectations a little.

 

There is a lot of detail that is still there and DCS: Black Shark will keep you on your toes with procedures. When DCS: A-10 comes out, it'll just add to everything you loved about Falcon and with a well designed campaign, although you might still pine for the dynamic campaign, you will do so while enjoying your game time.

 

Fridge

[robmypro]

All in all it sounds like LOMAC and BS are great sims. Maybe LOMAC isn't at the level of Falcon when it comes to ultra realism, but that doesn't mean it isn't immersive and fun. And honestly, there are times when Falcon's over the top realism gets in the way of fun. They are different animals and I look forward to checking them both out.

 

Thanks for all the replies, guys. I now have a much better feel for what to expect from LOMAC and BS, so I doubt I will be disappointed!

[Udat]

Okay guys, again thanks for all the feedback and opinions. I should have LOMAC in a couple days, so I'll let you know me opinion once I have a chance to work with it a while.

 

Any tips on getting started? Online docs, quick start guides. etc.? Also, any recommendations on the plane to start with?

 

 

Go to http://lockon.co.uk/index.php?end_pos=1852&scr=default for FC 2.0 training tracks.

Check out http://flankertraining.com/ironhand/a2g.htm for more advances (and really professionally made) tutorials.

 

I started on the Su-27 Flanker, and am very glad I did. In my opinion it has the steepest learning curve (I'm strictly talking about aerial combat here) of any LO fighter. You have to be smarter, more agressive and at the same time more careful when using this beauty, as it lacks active radar missiles.

 

When you get the hang of the knife-edge walk it is to fly this plane in a battlezone, use it correctly, you can be quite effective vs you ARH-equipped opponents. And when you make it work, it's a fantastic feeling!

 

BVR combat will also be easier for you later on if you decide to try the Mig or eagle.

 

If you're into groundpounding the frogs are amazing!

 

Good luck, hope to see you online soon

[robmypro]

BUT playing Falcon vanilla without any public mod (OF / FF) is a waste of time IMHO.

 

You made a lot of great points, but the last line I have to disagree with. Allied Force is awesome, and it is very stable. FF and OF always lost me with the constant crashes. I know they were good in a lot of respects, but nothing kills immersion like a CTD.

 

Allied Force was rock solid online. That's why I used it.

[robmypro]

Thanks Udat. I am checking it out now. Appreciate the help!