CCIP/CCRP in MIG29 and SU27/33

[IvanK]

The current mechanisation of changing between CCIP and CCRP for bombs in the SU27/33/25T and MIG29 is unbelievably clunky. i.e. if Pitch angle is , < -10 degrees then CCRP is the active mode after designating and holding down the pickle button. If Pitch angle is > than -10 degrees then CCIP is the active delivery mode. This is so clunky I cannot believe it is modelled correctly as from a pilots point of view it would be classed unacceptable. In western types there is a clear selection method (switch or FCS programming) to select between CCIP and CCRP modes. This is reflected in the FC2 A10 which has a CCIP/CCRP keybinding.

 

Doing a little research (though only on the MIG29) leads me to think that the Russian mechanisation is done by switch action as well and not as a function of Pitch angle as implemented in FC2. A translated MIG29 weapons manual describes the method of selection using a mode switch on the ACS panel on the top left of the instrument panel. Amongst the selections on this switch are "PITCH" and "OPT" ...for Optic.

 

 

the Translated manual references the PITCH selection to DIVE/TOSS ... aka CCRP, and the OPTIC selection to CCIP.

 

Though I don't have the SU27/SU33 references I think the mechanisation would be similar.... same goes for the SU25T.

 

It would be nice for FC to incorporate this manual selection. The same Key command for the A10 could be used. Then the pilot could use CCRP in a realistic fashion.

[thaFunkster]

I have thought the same thing as it is the same as you describe in 1.12...

 

But why would they model it unless it was there for real as if they did it for the A10 then surely they can do it for the rest of the aircraft if they wanted to..

[jib]

Seconded, Do you think it would be possible to make a mod for this, I suspect it is hard-coded.

[IvanK]

From the Luftwaffe MIG29 Flight manual (In English) the ACS/WCS switch is actually labelled "TOSS" for the CCRP mode.

 

 

Does anyone have a copy of the Luftwaffe MIG 29 Tactical supplement in English ?

 

Though this link:

 

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/MiG-29-3b.htm

 

States that NO CCIP mode is in the aircraft and that the OPT position relates to IRST system ??

Edited April 17, 2010 by IvanK

[IvanK]

I have a Russian MIG29 Weapon delivery manual (So old the Typeface is that of a type writer) that describes switcholgy and HUD presentations for 3 or 4 different deliveries with Graphics depicting (both HUD and external) Roll in, Designation, Release and recovery. All these apperr to show differrent variations of CCRP type deliveries. Pre Planned target, Target of Opportunity , and Over the shoulder Toss. I cannot see any CCIP type presentations in there. There is a refrence in there to dive angles between 10 --150 ???

 

In a couple of the graphics there is a pseudo Displayed impact Line (DIL) or Bomb fall line eminating from the top of the pipper but it clearly does not represent a DIL as is typical in western CCIP presentations. My best guess its just an Earth vertical refrence line.

 

I have tried using Web translation utilities but the result is pretty horrible.

[Zorrin]

You could try modifying the default.lua in the Config/Inputs/Aircrafts/xxx/keyboard/

 

In there you can un-comment the CCIRP mode and then create a new command for it in the options menu. No idea if it will work though or whether this would be considered acceptable for online play.

 

Once you change the default.lua you will need to delete the keyboard.lua or whatever it is called in your langauge.

 

Thereafter you can edit the Joystick's default.lua and do the same so you can bind it to a joystick button directly through FC2. Same here though, after you modifiy the default.lua you need to delete stickname.lua and reassign your controls (probably the axes too if you are using anything that isn't just a stick with a slider).

[ФрогФут]

We have just one of A-G modes in MiG-29. It is ОПТ. without preliminary intersection of the target. In this modes there are two submodes - bombing in the visible zone and into the invisible zone, which are presented in the game.

The ОПТ. with preliminary intersection and toss bombing are just not represented in the game.

[IvanK]

Yet Dive Toss Bombing works just fine.... my interpretation is "In the invisible zone" (its just its mechanisation is clunky).

CCIP bombing works just fine.... my interpretation is this is "In the visible zone" bombing....i.e Pipper on pickle.

 

Flanker training videos illustrate this clearly and Pg 46 and 274 of the FC2 manual uses the term CCIP and CCRP.

 

The Russian Terms are confusing, What does "Preliminary intersection of the target" mean ?

Edited April 18, 2010 by IvanK

[zakobi]

"Preliminary intersection of the target" mean ?

 

I'm guessing it's a point just before the target, where you have to aim to be able to intercept the target with a bomb.

[ФрогФут]

I'm guessing it's a point just before the target, where you have to aim to be able to intercept the target with a bomb.

You press down lock target button, point the new mark on the desired target, then the computer calculates the plane's position relating to the target and you aim just the same as you do in LO, but the accuracy is better.

[IvanK]

"You press down lock target button, point the new mark on the desired target, then the computer calculates the plane's position relating to the target and you aim just the same as you do in LO, but the accuracy is better."

 

Since you refer to LO does this mean this is a new undocumented sub mode ?? or are you referring to the current (and in LO FC1.12 CCRP method where you press and hold down the release button with the CCRP reticle on the target) ?

 

There are 2 Free Fall modes in FC2

 

AM GND on the HUD is CCRP

IP GND on the HUD is CCIP

Edited April 18, 2010 by IvanK

[ФрогФут]

I was talking about what is written in the MiG-29 combat manual, not LO. In LO we have just the simple ОПТ. mode. The method, i mentioned is a little complicated(i tried to describe it "on fingers") and needs time to master it.

Edited April 20, 2010 by ФрогФут

[Renato71]

If I may add to confusion:

 

What is BORE in English version, it is OPT in Russian version of FC2.