Zerotown Posted June 3, 2010 Posted June 3, 2010 I have been a longtime Saitek user but I'm on the fence of getting one of these (used)....I also play wings of prey and 1946 sometimes but mainly am still into DCS:BS and LOFC2. Is it worth it?? Keep in mind Im not going to pay full price and am going to update the software and controller ROM right away. Considering that you can buy the device with a discount *and* that the Logitech-people have announced they are working with ED to make G940 support even better... well I'd go for it personally. As far as I know, there is no other stick HOTAS that provides force feedback, has dual throttles and Hall sensors to boot. It's mainly the software and especially the way it is supported by game designers that makes the stick's capabilities under-utilized. I play IL-2 and WOP and find the stick very nice and accurate in its handling. The ffb-effects in those games could be brought up to a new level though. If game designers added more effects, like the way airspeed influences the control surfaces of planes (like one can feel in FSX), it would be even better. Only time can tell if these will be supported though. My DCS:BS joystick profile for the Logitech G940 Flight System
sinelnic Posted June 9, 2010 Posted June 9, 2010 Hi guys, another question: Has the axis reversal bug been solved, for the Rotaries Throttle AND the Stick? Westinghouse W-600 refrigerator - Corona six-pack - Marlboro reds - Patience by Girlfriend "Engineering is the art of modelling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess, in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." (Dr. A. R. Dykes - British Institution of Structural Engineers, 1976)
Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Covering the handle sensor with a bit of electrical tape really works well for BS and FC. The trim system works exactly like it's supposed to for BS.
Slayer Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 Considering that you can buy the device with a discount *and* that the Logitech-people have announced they are working with ED to make G940 support even better... well I'd go for it personally. As far as I know, there is no other stick HOTAS that provides force feedback, has dual throttles and Hall sensors to boot. It's mainly the software and especially the way it is supported by game designers that makes the stick's capabilities under-utilized. I play IL-2 and WOP and find the stick very nice and accurate in its handling. The ffb-effects in those games could be brought up to a new level though. If game designers added more effects, like the way airspeed influences the control surfaces of planes (like one can feel in FSX), it would be even better. Only time can tell if these will be supported though. Well I made the plunge, I bought a used one off ebay for $200.00....I have missed FFB since I had to give up on my old MSFFB1 due to the OS's no longer supporting it. If I don't like it I can resell it and go back to my faithful X52 pro. I'll post my impressions when I get the unit next week :) [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] System Specs Intel I7-3930K, Asrock EXTREME9, EVGA TITAN, Mushkin Chronos SSD, 16GB G.SKILL Ripjaws Z series 2133, TM Warthog and MFD's, Saitek Proflight Combat pedals, TrackIR 5 + TrackClip PRO, Windows 7 x64, 3-Asus VS2248H-P monitors, Thermaltake Level 10 GT, Obutto cockpit
sobek Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 The trim system works exactly like it's supposed to for BS. AFAIK the centering forces still aren't gone when the trim button is depressed -> not working as intended. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Svend_Dellepude Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 I wonder why you split the axes into eight parts? Wouldn't a split into three with the two ends with your commands at 10% or so and the middle 80% empty work as well? Just curious. Same thing, just me not thinking. :doh: [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Win10 64, Asus Maximus VIII Formula, i5 6600K, Geforce 980 GTX Ti, 32 GB Ram, Samsung EVO SSD.
Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 AFAIK the centering forces still aren't gone when the trim button is depressed -> not working as intended. It is if you put a tape to cover the optical sensor on the stick. Works perfectly.
sobek Posted June 10, 2010 Posted June 10, 2010 It is if you put a tape to cover the optical sensor on the stick. Works perfectly. TRIM button, not deadman switch. All centering forces should be gone when the trim button is depressed. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 TRIM button, not deadman switch. All centering forces should be gone when the trim button is depressed. My understanding is that the stick should remain in the position where it was when the trim is pressed. This is what it does with the tape trick.
sobek Posted June 11, 2010 Posted June 11, 2010 My understanding is that the stick should remain in the position where it was when the trim is pressed. This is what it does with the tape trick. The tape trick only works when you let go of the stick. That is not what i'm talking about. I feel like i'm fighting against windmills here. :huh: One more time: When you hold down the trim button, the centering forces should be gone, like in the real ka-50. But with the g940 they still remain the same, so when you try to trim you have to fight the stick force, which is absolutely unrealistic. Hence not working as intended. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 So what happens if you let go of the stick in the real shark while holding the trim button? Would it slop to one side? Also, I just click the trim button, not hold it down. What do you mean by hold it down? Is holding it down more realistic? You seem to know realism pretty well. :huh:
sobek Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 So what happens if you let go of the stick in the real shark while holding the trim button? Would it slop to one side? No it would not, that is why people cover the sonsors on the stick. But that is not what i wanted to say. :) Also, I just click the trim button, not hold it down. What do you mean by hold it down? Is holding it down more realistic? You seem to know realism pretty well.Well i can only trust other people who have expierience with russian choppers, but as far as my understanding goes, when the trim button is pressed down, the clamps that hold the centering springs open, and there is no more centering force on the stick. When you release the trim with the stick at a different position, the clamps reengage and the stick now centers to the new position. This is incorrectly modelled in the g940, as the spring center suddenly shifts when the trim button is released, causing oversteering and unsmooth movement. I hope you understand what i'm getting at. ;) For me, this is one of the biggest flaws in the g940s FF implementation. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Yes, I do understand what you mean and in that sense you're right, it is unrealistic. However, one can argue that the button placement on the G940 isn't like the real Shark stick or the stick is too short so therefore it's unrealistic.....I mean, there are many things about a PC cockpit that is unrealistic. Besides, the G940 is the ONLY FF joystick that holds the position of the stick with the trim function as far as I know and that is more realistic than anything else out there (try to get a CH or Saitek to do that). The only major flaw I see with the G940 today is the reversal bug. Otherwise, it's a top notch system. Hopefully, ED will fix the "centering force while trim pressed" issue in their next release. It's not a Logitech issue.....
AlphaOneSix Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 The force acting on the cyclic (and pedals) when the trim button is not pressed is called "artificial feel". The force is provided by "feel springs". The feel springs connect the push-pull rods of the flight controls to a magnetic brake, which is really just an electromagnetic clutch. When the trim button is NOT being pressed, the magnetic brakes (one mag brake and one feel spring per axis) lock in place and any movement of the cyclic or pedals must overcome the tension of the springs. This spring force is what holds the controls in place if you take your hands off of the cyclic or pedals. It's also a force that you have to push against if you move the cyclic or pedals without pressing the trim button. While the trim button is pressed down, the magnetic brakes are allowed to move, which causes the feel springs to move without pushing on the springs. This removes all forces from the cyclc and pedals. While the controls do not become "floppy", there is no spring force holding them in place. There are two "schools" of trim usage: One way is to hold the trim button down for the duration of a maneuver. Another way is to perform a maneuver while pushing against the spring forces, and then quickly tap and release the trim button once a new desired attitude has been established. For the G940 to operate in a realistic manner, all spring forces on the stick should be removed (making the stick go "floppy") for the entire time that the trim button is depressed, and then when the trim button is released, the spring forces should come back and set the new stick center. It should be noted that with regard to the autopilot, when the trim button is depressed, the "hold" functions of the autopilot are temporarily disengaged, and they come back on when the trim button is released, with the new attitude being held by the autopilot. This, of course, has nothing to do with how the spring system works, but it makes "fighting the autopilot" much less of an issue if maneuvers are completed with the trim button held down for the duration of a maneuver.
sobek Posted June 12, 2010 Posted June 12, 2010 Besides, the G940 is the ONLY FF joystick that holds the position of the stick with the trim function as far as I know and that is more realistic than anything else out there (try to get a CH or Saitek to do that). Microsoft FFB2 FTW, works like a charm. Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Jesse Posted June 14, 2010 Author Posted June 14, 2010 So can anybody from ED confirm that a solution is being worked on for the G940 or are we all just SOL?
mikey Posted June 15, 2010 Posted June 15, 2010 I believe so. This stick has been out for almost a year now, and ED and logitech have not really shown any intention to actually make this stick work properly in black shark, and I doubt that will change in the near future. All we can hope for now is that A-10C will not have any special ffb features like BS has which are bound to be rubbish again on the g940. I've got 99 problems but my Ekran ain't one
Zerotown Posted June 18, 2010 Posted June 18, 2010 I believe they are working on it, though they've not set a date. In this fairly recent post, G940Mark speaks of the fact that ED and Logitech are/have been working together. My DCS:BS joystick profile for the Logitech G940 Flight System
Jesse Posted June 18, 2010 Author Posted June 18, 2010 I believe they are working on it, though they've not set a date. In this fairly recent post, G940Mark speaks of the fact that ED and Logitech are/have been working together. This isn't really a fact until ED confirms or denies it. In all honesty I'm extremely pessimistic about the whole thing. If they were working on it they no doubt would have told us. Don't hold your breath.
Zerotown Posted June 19, 2010 Posted June 19, 2010 (edited) Yes, well.. despite ones outlook on the possibility of support (I'm optimistic that it will happen, but realistic in a sense that I expect it to take a long time), there isn't much else to do but wait and enjoy the G940 in it's current state. To be honest: I think it handles pretty well right now. I can execute some delicate maneuvers and cause a bit of carnage along the way. Good enough for me. Better support is always appreciated though. Edited June 21, 2010 by Zerotown spelling error fixed My DCS:BS joystick profile for the Logitech G940 Flight System
sinelnic Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 Hi guys, another question: Has the axis reversal bug been solved, for the Rotaries Throttle AND the Stick? Nobody cares about Axis Reversal Bug. Here I am worrying about Axil Reversal Bug when the world might very well end tomorrow. There is no reason for an ordinary human being to worry about Axis Reversal Bug or any other of my questions whatsoever. :Flush: Sigh... Westinghouse W-600 refrigerator - Corona six-pack - Marlboro reds - Patience by Girlfriend "Engineering is the art of modelling materials we do not wholly understand, into shapes we cannot precisely analyse so as to withstand forces we cannot properly assess, in such a way that the public has no reason to suspect the extent of our ignorance." (Dr. A. R. Dykes - British Institution of Structural Engineers, 1976)
Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 It's not fixed. I think Logitech dropped the ball on that one.
Pilotasso Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 Nobody cares about Axis Reversal Bug. Here I am worrying about Axil Reversal Bug when the world might very well end tomorrow. There is no reason for an ordinary human being to worry about Axis Reversal Bug or any other of my questions whatsoever. :Flush: Sigh... :huh: man, smoke only tobaco... .
Posted June 22, 2010 Posted June 22, 2010 I seem to have found another serious issue with trim and the G940 (rudders). I notice that when trimming yaw that there is a spike in the yaw when the trim button is released. For example: 1. I input the amount of yaw I want to trim using rudders, 2. I press the trim button then release 3. When trim is released, there is a spike in the yaw momentarily This seems to happen in both "central trimming mode" as well as without. Anyone else confirm this? I do have force feedback enabled (although this shouldn't affect my rudders). Thanks.
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