I hate the F15

[BlackFallout]

Well considering that the real life F-15's kill to death ratio is 104-0, no, your feelings are NOT justified. I have spent all my time mastering the A-10A and F-15C in FC2. The F-15 is an extremely capable aircraft. The radar is extremely simple, especially considering the fact that FC2 is not a clickable cockpit therefor the radar is very easy to use.

 

Oh and by the way, the real life F-15 holds the fastest time to climb record in the world, so if anything it climbs like a "homesick angel"

 

I did a test and figured out the reason for the slow climb was because I had 3 fuel tanks that I forgot to take into consideration.

[kingneptune117]

I did a test and figured out the reason for the slow climb was because I had 3 fuel tanks that I forgot to take into consideration.

 

Yes that would explain it. Try putting in full fuel (no tanks) for both the F-15 and SU-27. Take off and and 400 knots pull straight up into the vertical. You will notice that the F-15 climbs higher before stalling out.

[EtherealN]

Yeah, when I want to get up high real fast I accelerate to at least 450knots IAS (preferably 550) and then pitch up and keep climbing to angels 40 on burner, I then turn towards whatever I'm intercepting and drop my tanks.

 

Weight and drag will severely impact your altitude.

 

Regarding locks that don't work, do recall that just because something is in detection range doesn't mean it's in lock range. At really long ranges a fighter target might only barely cause a detectible return, and while that return is big enough to qualify to be shown on your scope it will be difficult to lock. Besides - you don't want to lock at too long range anyhow, since an STT lock will tell them that you are investigating them and possibly planning to attack. Hold off on giving them such information until you are close to attack position. Where said attack position is depends on several factors - if both you and your target are at angels 40 and closing on each other you might consider yourself able to launch at 30-40nm with a 120C. If both of you are at angels 20 and he's heading away from you you'll have to be very close for there to be a point in shooting.

 

Also, while in TWS mode, make sure to keep him in the scan zone. Move your bug continually to hover over your target so that the scan zone elevation gates are giving you good info, and adjust elevation to compensate for your relative movements. If you are at angels 30 and he's at angels 20 and you don't move your bug as you close it might say that you're scanning between 15 and 35, but at the specific position where he is at you are scanning 25-35 and will lose him from your scope.

 

Oh, and if you do lose a target from your scope while close, don't spend too much time reacquiring. That's a very very dangerous situation and most of the time the best course of action is to turn around and move away. Ideally you should have friends or such in your direction of escape that can pick up the slack and de-louse you so you can turn hot again.

[IvanK]

If you want Max Rate (or pretty close to it) climb (in just about any supersonic fighter) just try this :

 

As you release brakes Start a clock

Get airborne in Full burner, hold it down until 0.85Mach.

Then smoothly pull *about 3G) to say 30 degrees nose up.

Then climb at Mach 0.9. .... just accept the IAS you have (it will be reducing in the constant Mach climb).

In the climb make small pitch adjustments to hold Mach 0.9.

Stop the clock say at 35,000feet. Check your time.

The Big pull to 90 degrees nose up is not the way to go.

 

 

(If you have tanks on drop the Mach back to about 0.84.

 

The Big pull to 90 degrees nose up is not the way to go.

[GGTharos]

The F-15C climb schedule is:

 

MIL: Take off in AB, pitch 10deg, AB off at 300kt, pitch for 350kt and follow through with M0.9 at cross-over.

 

AB: Same as above, but stay in AB and follow through with M0.95 at cross-over.

[IvanK]

Yes thats a standard Climb schedule in either Mil or a slightly differrent profile in MAX AB ... its not Best rate or Best energy.

 

If you want Max Energy climb schedule (close to max rate) its going to be close to constant 0.9M all the way ... "riding the 1G Ps contour peaks".

 

Here is the theory and an example using some F16 data.

 

Blue is Max rate schedule and red line max energy schedule. A small subtle difference between the two. All Supersonic fighters have very similar profiles... just the Ps values on each curve vary though the curve shapes are pretty much all the same.... This is the very heart of the Energy manoeuverability theory put forward by such enlightned individuals as Rutowski and Boyd.

 

Note the peaks of the Ps curves are all pretty close to Mach 0.9 in the subsonic region.

A practical application of the curves is .

 

Blue line. if all you want is min time to height.

 

Red line if you are say on a scramble with an end game energy requirement of say 40,000ft Mach 1.5 and you want to achieve this in min time.

 

 

A similar set of curves and best profile line also exists in the supersonic region. With a supersonic end game (say 40,000ft Mach 1.5) then the task is to smoothly transfer between the the subsonic profile and the supersonic profile

This is ideally done by a Zero G unload from the subsonic profile then to pick up the supersonic profile. This unload path is parralel to the Es countours ...those curved lines running from left to right. Whats different is the Supersonic profile is then flown at constant CAS (increasing Mach) whilst the subsonic profile is flown at constant Mach.

 

In some aeroplanes this method is the ONLY way you will be able to achieve the Max Mach no capability of the aircraft within the fuel capacity of the jet.

Edited May 31, 2010 by IvanK

[IvanK]

Here is another example chart of a the aborted J79 F16. As you can see different Engine airframe combination but the subsonic curve peaks are still in the Mach 0.9 area.... thats where your best climb performance lives.

 

[GGTharos]

Nice examples - thanks for the info :)

[IvanK]

I would be interested to see an F15 1G Ps chart if you have one GG :)

[GGTharos]

I'll look through the -1 I have, but I'm afraid that's one type of chart it doesn't have :/.

Although you could theoretically derive it I suppose.

[IvanK]

Yes I have an old Dash 1 . It does have a Ps=0 1G chart but that only gives you the one contour .... though the peak is still around 0.9. Just makes it awkward to see the lower level contours.

 

You can derive the same profile from sustained G curves as well its all quite holistic actually :)

[GGTharos]

That's what I was thinking. In any case where you have the highest sustained G you should have the highest Ps I think, and yes, that's around M0.9.

[IvanK]

Exactly :)

[IvanK]

Here is the same chart for the F5E. Again Mach 0.9 the magic number

 

[efs2]

But you will find out that the ability of the F-15 to fire slammers at (multiple) targets while still scanning the sky, makes it the best BVR fighter

Can you do that in the F-15 in the sim? It's been awhile. but I think I remember reading that is a feature that is not modeled.

[EtherealN]

efs2, yes you can. Use TWS (TrackWhileScan) mode and bug several bandits, then just let fly. Using STT (SingeTargetTrack) mode obviously prohibits this, so my guess if you never saw this ability would be that you forgot to switch to TWS. ;)

 

4 targets is your maximum.

[HiJack]

Have not been wery sucessfull with TWS yet. It will com to light one day I hope :D

[SFJackBauer]

Can you do that in the F-15 in the sim? It's been awhile. but I think I remember reading that is a feature that is not modeled.

 

Yes it is modelled in the form that you can bug more than one target in TWS mode (I guess the limit is 4), and then fire several missiles at once. You still have to keep all targets under scan until the missile goes pitbull, thing that can be difficult if the targets maneuver to different altitudes. Also you have to designate all targets before firing the first missile, or you will "waste" 2 missiles on one target.

 

EDIT - Duh Ethereal beat me :)

 

To not waste a post, I just want to remind how useful is to narrow the radar scan azimuth in the F-15, since it will give you faster update rates - and every second count in the modern battlefield.

 

Now, I see the russian aircraft have a narrower radar scan zone by default, and it can't be expanded - only slewed. Maybe this gives russian AC faster scan rates than the F-15 radar, and given this people find targets faster on russian AC? Perhaps people transitioning from russian AC to F-15 should consider this.

Edited June 1, 2010 by SFJackBauer

[EtherealN]

Another pint with the faster update speed - if I recall correctly the APG63 wants to have four sensor "contacts" on the same target before it considers itself to have a proper track file, and it will disallow launch until then. I don't remember if this is implemented in FC2 though, would have to doublecheck, but narrow-mode would then allow it to build that track file much quicker.

[GGTharos]

No, it isn't implemented in FC2. None of the radars build trackfiles for their TWS modes in FC2, trackfiles just happen.

[104th_Crunch]

Can you do that in the F-15 in the sim? It's been awhile. but I think I remember reading that is a feature that is not modeled.

 

yes

[bumfire]

Well considering that the real life F-15's kill to death ratio is 104-0, no, your feelings are NOT justified. I have spent all my time mastering the A-10A and F-15C in FC2. The F-15 is an extremely capable aircraft. The radar is extremely simple, especially considering the fact that FC2 is not a clickable cockpit therefor the radar is very easy to use.

 

Oh and by the way, the real life F-15 holds the fastest time to climb record in the world, so if anything it climbs like a "homesick angel"

 

The streak eagle did hold it but a test at thunder city in 2006 broke the record, the f15 streak eagle probably still holds some records, but the ones below were broken;

 

New Time-to-Altitude Record for Thunder City

 

Two new South African records have been set by one of Thunder City’s English Electric Lightnings, registration ZU-BEX. The first record achieved by Thunder City test pilot Dave Stock and Steve Quirk was 70 seconds from a standing start to an altitude of 6000m (just over 19 000ft). This was performed at the Overberg air show near Bredasdorp.

 

A week later Dave Stock and well known British businessman John Caudwell set another record; this time from a standing start to 9,000m (just over 29,000 ft) at the Ysterplaats air show in Cape Town. Despite being robbed of considerable power when one of the afterburners went out early in the attempt, the Lightning nevertheless reached the 6 km high target in 102 seconds after releasing its brakes.

[EtherealN]

I love the EE Lightnings. Literally two massive engines with wings strapped on. :D

[RIPTIDE]

I love the EE Lightnings. Literally two massive engines with wings strapped on. :D

... and a pilot! :megalol:

[BlackFallout]

Just wanted to let you guys know that you helped me out a lot and I'm actually worlds better with the F15. :thumbup:

 

The tactic I've been using to achieve Kills, Climbing to 42k with full after burner and three drop tanks use rest of drop tank fuel with after burners to gain speed, Fuel tanks run out, I drop the tanks then set throttle to cruise.

 

Then I set radar to TWS mode, set range 40,change the scan zone and look for bandits.:thumbup: