Air to Air - F-16C vs. F-15C

[kingneptune117]

What are the main differences?

[mvsgas]

Is like comparing apples and oranges.

F-15C Air defense/ air superiority

F-15E Strike with A2A capability

F-16 Multirole

[GGTharos]

The F-16 is a lightweight fighter with good TWR and turning ability; it has relatively care-free handling thanks to the fly by wire, and a very convenient cockpit layout and HOTAS.

 

The F-15C has a more powerful radar, better engine performance at altitude, higher top speed and acceleration in its favorite flight conditions, and it will eat you alive in a BVR fight - this aircraft is built to take the fight to the enemy's home, so it brings everything it needs with it including tightly integrated Radar/RWR/ECM. The F-16 does so to a somewhat smaller degree.

 

What are the main differences?

[kingneptune117]

The F-16 is a lightweight fighter with good TWR and turning ability; it has relatively care-free handling thanks to the fly by wire, and a very convenient cockpit layout and HOTAS.

 

The F-15C has a more powerful radar, better engine performance at altitude, higher top speed and acceleration in its favorite flight conditions, and it will eat you alive in a BVR fight - this aircraft is built to take the fight to the enemy's home, so it brings everything it needs with it including tightly integrated Radar/RWR/ECM. The F-16 does so to a somewhat smaller degree.

 

 

How are the 15 and 16 different in terms of BVR? Simply because of the difference in radar power?

[EtherealN]

F-15 has better radar, more weapons, integrated ECM/ECCM, better high-altitude performance.

[GGTharos]

To expound on what EtherealN has said, all of those things allow the F-15C to:

 

Fly higher to start with (more range for missiles)

Detect you first (set up an attack before you know its coming)

Accelerate first and faster (more speed = more range for missiles)

Get the first shot (probably before you even get to shoot if ever - ECM/ECCM built into the eagle help here also, but it already has a pure kinematic advantage)

Minimize your E-Pole (your missile will not reach him, his will reach you)

[Boberro]

F-16 rulez and period. You have great multirole fighter..., I'd pwn 'n' own GG if LO had F-16 :P

Edited June 17, 2010 by Boberro

[GGTharos]

You'd just go down like the rest :P

 

F-16 rulez and period. You have great multirole fighter..., I'd pwn 'n' own GG if LO had F-16 :P

[Moa]

F-15 and F-16 are a 'high/lo' mix.

 

F-15 excellent for air-to-air but too expensive to have hordes of them.

 

F-16 good, but not as good in air-to-air, but cheaper. This makes up the numbers so that the US Air Force is not outnumbered in a strategic sense. The F-16 also performs many missions (A2G, SEAD, naval strike) that the F-15 was not originally designed for, or too expensive to risk. The F-15E is there to keep the F-15 relevant when there are no A2A engagements to be had (otherwise it gets hard to justify the expense of the F-15 when they don't get used).

 

US strategy contines this mix. A few expensive F-22 and more numerous F-35 in greater numbers.

 

The Russians also adopted this philosophy to some extent. The more expensive Flanker supplemented by cheaper (but still able) MiG-29.

 

One is better than the other as a specialised design. However one is better than the other in cost, numbers, and general-purpose utility.

[GGTharos]

The F-15C did have some built-in bombing capability (and could have had more) but the Air Force insisted on 'not a pound for air to ground'. This essentially made the F-15A/C communities some of the best in air to air.

[vanir]

The hi/lo mix is really a logistical doctrine at the deployment level, not a technological one on the battlefield. In a mixed group the F-16 would perform the same functions as the F-15, and moreso nowadays the Eagle will perform many of the same functions as a Viper.

 

The hi/lo distinction is really about forward deployment, high turnaround and low cost maintenance where the Eagle requires significant logistical support and solid bases. Well that was the theory anyways.

 

The last F-15C block built wound up with F-15E upgrades (AN/APG-70, etc.) which I guess was probably retrofitted to others during the 90s, blurring distinction between their capabilities.

 

The hi/lo mix was never the intention of the VVS with the Fulcrum and Flanker. The Flanker was equipped to the PVO (strategic defence) mostly, the Fulcrum to VVS (air force) with only the AV-MF (naval aviation) getting a significant mix. The VVS got some Flankers for escort use with long range aviation, something like four understrength units, they're comparatively expensive and difficult to produce against the MiG (which uses a modified Flogger radar set, is made in a refrigerator factory, etc.).

 

Far from being low maintenance the Fulcrum wears quickly and is a very short range defensive fighter, although it can operate from rough fields and was designed for forward deployment...but only within Soviet territories. It does best within an EWR network of ground control stations at the fringes of the Iron Curtain and everywhere else you need a handy squadron of interceptors.

 

As such whilst its performance is designed to compete with the F-16 it is not an effective export comparison with the type for example, being a different animal really and not strictly parallel with any western type by design requirement. The Flanker is a better comparison with western contemporaries.

 

In the Cold War conflaguration along the Iron Curtain scenario the two aircraft types and their contemporaries were designed to combat, very few Flankers would be operating anywhere near Fulcrums. They have different commands that would rarely coordinate.

 

Very recently the CIS/VVS has become far more centralised.

[mikoyan]

the Colonel John boyd help to set the bases for the f-15 thanks to him the airforce scaped the idea of using the f-111 for everything ; that is why the eagle is a pure fighter with no compromises. thanks to his concepts the f-15 is as good as it is now, he still want it a little bit smaller though

here is some info from wiki:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boyd_(military_strategist)

 

here is the man himself talking about his story about the fx program: min 2:30 _+

 

Edited June 17, 2010 by mikoyan

[kingneptune117]

The F-15C did have some built-in bombing capability (and could have had more) but the Air Force insisted on 'not a pound for air to ground'. This essentially made the F-15A/C communities some of the best in air to air.

 

is this why in the F-15C cockpit there is a button that says AG. look to the right of the attitude indicator in the pic below.

 

[EtherealN]

Not necessarily: a lot of aircraft instruments are actually sort of "off-the-shelf" and most aircraft will end up having a button here or there that isn't used because the design re-used a component from another aircraft. (If you have ~20 000 units of a panel available that does the job, why scrap those just because it has one button too much? Worse if there's a button too little, but if it has everything you need, might as well use it.)

 

Not sure if that's the actual case with the 15 though.

[mvsgas]

is this why in the F-15C cockpit there is a button that says AG. look to the right of the attitude indicator in the pic below.

 

Yes, according to F-15 Pilots I have worked with in the past and to quote a specific instance when I ask this, his answer was; "There is a button there that reads A/G but, I have no idea what it does, since I have never press it"

[borchi_2b]

well then it is time to do so :-).

 

i bet, that when you hang a 2000pound under the centerline and switch to a2g, that there will be a pickle in the hud. if it wil drop?

 

could try it on nellistower what do you think?

just joking.

i think that there was some little a2g capability left in the a/b/c/d do to the fact that smart people think way into the future, and in europe there was the final war planed right, from both nato and the russian counterpart. so when the war would have lasted estimated 3 - 4 weeks, it was assumed that probably only a2a fighter would be left, so then it comes in handy when you got at least some a2g capability left :-)

 

thats what some nato general told me once, but who knows, maybe he just made up a bunch of baloni :-)

Edited June 18, 2010 by borchi_2b

[thaFunkster]

kingneptune117, where did you get that cockpit from? Its not easy radar mode is it?

[Boberro]

You'd just go down like the rest :P

 

Your wishes :D

 

is this why in the F-15C cockpit there is a button that says AG. look to the right of the attitude indicator in the pic below.

 

 

Yup this button exists, but i think it is similar situation to Ka-50 where is supposedly air-air button too... or it has been removed.

 

Nice Falcon... I am enjoying Aeyes F-15E Superpit hehehe. F-15C is also fine, you get advanced radar and modes, not like few keys in LO hihihihih :D

[Svend_Dellepude]

kingneptune117, where did you get that cockpit from? Its not easy radar mode is it?

 

Falcon4

[thaFunkster]

What? But I thought we were talking about the F15?

[topol-m]

What? But I thought we were talking about the F15?

 

That`s F-15C cockpit from the game Falcon 4.0

[GGTharos]

The USAF basically had the A2G capability removed, but it's software - they could have put it back in any time they wanted.

 

well then it is time to do so :-).

 

i bet, that when you hang a 2000pound under the centerline and switch to a2g, that there will be a pickle in the hud. if it wil drop?

 

could try it on nellistower what do you think?

just joking.

i think that there was some little a2g capability left in the a/b/c/d do to the fact that smart people think way into the future, and in europe there was the final war planed right, from both nato and the russian counterpart. so when the war would have lasted estimated 3 - 4 weeks, it was assumed that probably only a2a fighter would be left, so then it comes in handy when you got at least some a2g capability left :-)

 

thats what some nato general told me once, but who knows, maybe he just made up a bunch of baloni :-)

[mvsgas]

kingneptune117, where did you get that cockpit from? Its not easy radar mode is it?

 

http://www.cockpits.net/website/prodgalF15C.html

[GGTharos]

No, the real deal has functionality like this. It's a navigation/situational awareness aid with data link.

 

kingneptune117, where did you get that cockpit from? Its not easy radar mode is it?

[MoGas]

I recommend this book from Steve Davies http://www.borders.com.au/book/f-15-eagle-engaged-the-worlds-most-successful-jet-fighter/2001410/

 

I really like it and also alot info, and combat stories. Btw. Steve Davies is also in the ED team. :)